so cal pricing...am i too high???

BlackElantraGT said:
This is just my opinion and it's not meant to offend anyone, but I think a major reason why you're having trouble getting people to pay the price you want is due to the amount of competition from immigrant labor.
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You really think that if people working at these car wash places were not illegal immigrants that people would then be more willing to pay higher prices to have their car detailed? Sure the workers there would make a little more money but I doubt the quality of work would change much. The focus would still be on volume and not quality. I think Toyotaguy just needs to get himself set up with a good customer base and let his work speak for him. It has gotten really expensive to live in here in California and maybe priorities are just shifting. The state is actually considering a $2Billion dollar beer tax right now, even booze might get more expensive.
 
LOL I was talking about this the other day. I have a client who thinks 30 is too much for a car wash on his Expedition with 22's. I am going to have to raise prices to clients 25 miles and further but they probably wont pay for it so I'll probably lose them. If I told some of my clients 250 for the same process I would be turned away. Some others wouldn't think twice and say absolutely. I can't win fellas, I just can't win.
 
2KLS1 said:
You really think that if people working at these car wash places were not illegal immigrants that people would then be more willing to pay higher prices to have their car detailed? Sure the workers there would make a little more money but I doubt the quality of work would change much. The focus would still be on volume and not quality. I think Toyotaguy just needs to get himself set up with a good customer base and let his work speak for him. It has gotten really expensive to live in here in California and maybe priorities are just shifting. The state is actually considering a $2Billion dollar beer tax right now, even booze might get more expensive.
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I don't think the quality of their work would change much, but if these car wash businesses actually had to employ legal labor, many of them wouldn't be operating, at least not at the prices they are charging.



FWIW, I have nothing against illegal immigrants. I think the people that do have a problem with them are the ones in middle America who don't realize that these people are the driving force behind our economy, especially here in California. Our state's economy is only bigger than every other state in our Union, and even bigger than many nations.
 
BlackElantraGT said:
I don't think the quality of their work would change much, but if these car wash businesses actually had to employ legal labor, many of them wouldn't be operating, at least not at the prices they are charging.



FWIW, I have nothing against illegal immigrants. I think the people that do have a problem with them are the ones in middle America who don't realize that these people are the driving force behind our economy, especially here in California. Our state's economy is only bigger than every other state in our Union, and even bigger than many nations.
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I hear what you're saying. Another thing to realize though, and I'm directing this more towards Toyotaguy although I'm sure everyone here already knows, is that a lot of people just don't know the difference. To them there really isn't a difference between the guys that wash their cars with dirty water and a broom sweeper and the kind of work done by the pros we see here at Autopia. They just go with who ever is cheaper.
 
I'm no where near So Cal, so I dont know know if my opinion matters, but I used to live in Valencia, Ca just north of LA. I know how you all feel, with a carwash at each corner you drive by. Everytime someone calls me, I usually try to set up and appointment with them, or point them to my website. Its VERY hard to sell someone over the phone...period. If I have an appointment, I can use the car the show them the benefits. Its easier for people to 'see' visually, rather than having them interpurt and visualize for themselves.



If they see my website, it explains whats involved in each package, if they dont want, it, they move on and so do I.



ToyotaGuy and anyone else in So Cal...there are plenty of vehicles there, but what doesnt help is the cost of living and the awesome recession that we are in!



Just my .02 Sometimes I'm glad I don't live there, theres only one other detailer within 100 miles of me...and hes an Autopian, so I dont have any grudges!:dance
 
BlackElantraGT said:
ALL detailers don't live in California. It's about supply and demand. Sure we have great detailing weather most of the year here, but when you have every car wash competing and advertising a full detail for $100 and a multitude of "detailers" to pick from all charging way below what most Autopians expect to make, that makes it more difficult to get the prices you want. I'm not saying there isn't a market for higher end detailing services, I'm just saying you have a lot more people to compete with.



If you're going for a job interview, would your chances of getting hired be better if there were only a handful of other candidates vs. 100 people competing for the same job?
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I meant to say that all detailers in CALi don't have the issue Toyotaguy is having.



Also if you sell yourself the competition desn't matter whether there are 10 or 100 other competing for the position.



However, if you have limiting thoughts then you are right. It is easier to compete against 10.
 
Fighting the carwashes can be tough - and trust me, it's not an illegal immigrant thing. Back in Maine, where any illegals would probably be from canada, there is still downward price pressure from the car washes.



The place by my house does absolute crap work for $150 - there are quite a few folks who are willing to pay double that for work that's 10x better, it's just a matter of finding owners who appreciate quality and the accountability that comes with an owner-run business.



FWIW, I've found a real upward price pressure on my work lately. Owners don't balk at 350-700 for cars that are in good shape to start with, but only 100% correction is acceptable. I haven't talked to a client that wanted less than 90% perfect in over a year.
 
I'm a newbie to this forum and enjoying every minute of it. So I'll pitch in my two cents as recent recruit/converter/newguy since I'm local to you....



People don't understand there is a difference between the service you offer, and the service another place offers. You are offering a detail. The carwash is offering a detail. In the minds of many, it is the same exact thing, so the only difference would be price.



When I first bought my new vehicle I wanted to take "extreme" care of the paint job. I would go to the car wash all the time. I would purchase the extra details offered by the car wash. Obviously now I realized this probably did more damage than good, but most people just want a clean car, they don't know any better.



The general population is completely ignorant (myself included) when it comes to car paint care.
 
I believe in educating your customers and telling them what exactly your doing and what makes you different from the guys down the street or other so to speak professional detailers. After explaining to the customer the difference between yourself and others shows them that your are of higher quality and the extra money is worth it to have their investments protected. A perfect example. A guy I have known for quite sometime now was telling me he never needs a detail because he waxes his car every month and its always perfect. I was explaining to him that thats a good thing but properly prepping his car before the wax makes all the difference. To make a long story short, I divided the hood into 2, he did his side and I did mine. After seeing the process and the results of the finish, he has already referred over 10 different people with me. So taking the time to educate your customers and explaining to them the difference has made a huge difference on the amount of money they are willing to spend for a detail. They now understand and can say I got a FULL detail. A guy the other day has been through a few detailers and has had nothing but bad experience. He emailed me after he got home from work and went over the car and said "I should of gone with an autopian from the start" It made me feel good.
 
MobileJay said:
LOL I was talking about this the other day. I have a client who thinks 30 is too much for a car wash on his Expedition with 22's. I am going to have to raise prices to clients 25 miles and further but they probably wont pay for it so I'll probably lose them. If I told some of my clients 250 for the same process I would be turned away. Some others wouldn't think twice and say absolutely. I can't win fellas, I just can't win.
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Jason, you've got to be kidding me?



I detail in the same area as you every month or so and I never have issues with my clients wanting cheaper deals, matter of fact, every time I'm down there I seem to pick up another 1-3 clients....



Also, I have significantly raised my pricing this year and business has actually gotten better for me. I'm not bragging, just don't seem to see why it's different for others...



Josh
 
I've only been professionally detailing for a few months but I am already dealing with the same type issues.



I charge $35-$55 for a basic exterior wash and interior cleaning. Very thorough job. Between set-up and completing the job it takes from 1-2 hours(that's humping it) for a single car. This is in hopes of up-selling the car on the extras AND building a simple mobile business that a chronie can do for me. Paint correction is much more of course.



I had a lady tell me that I charge "wwwway too much" for a sedan($40), that another guy comes by and charges only $25. I told her that if he charges $25 and she's happy, that's all that matters. You can't please everyone and those low-ballers are especially hard to please. The best response to tell those goobers is "you get what you pay for". Leave it up to them to decide what they want.



I am considering raising my prices considering the quality and time I take. I'd rather do 5 quality jobs a week than 50 shoddy jobs.



I say don't flex on your prices unless they are wanting contract type work. Even then, only give them their combined discount on the next visit.
 
economics doesn't allow for constants. if you don't have enough work, then lower your price a bit. if you have too much work, maybe raise your prices some. supply and demand is quite a simple concept.
 
yeah, I realize that...but I am not going to continue to do a 300+ job for 190 bucks like I was doing for the first year of business with no advertising...well, a little advertising, but not much at all...



now its a new website, more advertising, more promotion, more donations, and working out of a corporate stereo store to hopefully drive some business my way...
 
toyotaguy said:
yeah, I realize that...but I am not going to continue to do a 300+ job for 190 bucks like I was doing for the first year of business with no advertising...well, a little advertising, but not much at all...



now its a new website, more advertising, more promotion, more donations, and working out of a corporate stereo store to hopefully drive some business my way...
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I hear ya, man. I have been consistently undercharging in order to build my client base. For example, I just spent 11 hours on a full detail on an S500 AMG and will be spending 11-12 hours on a Range Rover from the same couple for a total of $375. Yea. I'm insane. But, in doing this, I have driven them away from their usual $100 detail they were used to and will be receiving referrals from them with friends and family with the same luxury type vehicles in the future. It's worth the loss of money for the time being in order to gain a large client base.



I was talking about this yesterday with a fellow detailer while I was doing the Range Rover. I have spent 8 hours on the interior alone. The big debate is whether to spend less time on the car b/c I'm charging so little and try to sell them for more, or to spend just as much time as I would normally and tell them the price will be more in the future. I think the latter should be the case b/c when the car is all done, no matter how much or little they paid, when it's seen on the street it needs to be perfect b/c that is my advertising. No one knows what they paid, just whether or not it looks great. This has been working out for me and I can't tell you how much business this produces.



As mentioned, it's extremely hard to pull customer's in CA b/c of the extremely cheap 'detail' shops. However, I think I've got a hook on it with my method. Hopefully it can work for someone else, too.
 
^^^ thats what I was doing...but I am over the cheaper people...



I changed my pricing/process structure around to match what the people I come across typically want...as in a wash, wax, light interior for 125 instead of 100 plus carpet extraction...Plus. this keeps me in the $50-$60/hr range...



275 for a two step on a car, plus full interior takes approx 5 hours...so that is about 55/hr...obviously some cars clean up faster than others, or when I have an extra set of hands doing the inside while I tackle the paint, I can get to more cars in one day...



but most people i come across think a wash and wax plus full interior is a DETAIL...



I know that detailing is a luxury service, but I look at ^^^ "detail" as a necessity, which I explain to my clients....



Hopefully this new venture into partnering up with the stereo shop works out and I start getting more business....
 
Im not trying to start anything here but I think most people are not looking for 100% paint correction when they get a black car or any other color done for that matter. I think some here take what they do too seriously and try to push that level of service on people who really dont care.



When you have a client that wants full correction, you will know it and you wont have to sell anything. If your reputation is good and you're known to be a guru with correction work then they will give you the keys and tell you to call them when its done. In my experience money isnt the concern with those kind of clients.



This is just my view from up here in Portland. I try to focus on my clients concerns and do plenty of upselling to more involved packages. When clients come in on a budget, I explain to them that all we can do is what that amount of money allows. This sometimes even gets to the point of a client asking me how much "cheaper" I can do the job and I simply tell them "what part of the job do you want me to leave out?" This helps me cut down on the price shoppers.



Overall, most of my clients are people that have their daily drivers worked on and want to keep them very clean. I think the average client is looking for that "More shiny than it was before" kind of finish as most of them are not like us and dont care if their rides are "Show Ready"



I make a great living on the 250 to 350 dollar clients and wouldnt change a thing. That doesnt make us "hacks" either. We focus on what our clients want. Simple. All this comes from the stand point that about 5% of my customers have $300,000+ cars and dont add up to be enough to make ends meet to keep my shop open.



I'll put my seat belt on for my group flame session now.....LOL!



Just my .02...........................................Chris
 
That's exactly why I will have 2 areas of my business. En-mass type basic stuff, then a paint correction truck. It's nice to have something to fall back on.
 
Gumball said:
Im not trying to start anything here but I think most people are not looking for 100% paint correction when they get a black car or any other color done for that matter. I think some here take what they do too seriously and try to push that level of service on people who really dont care.
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Understandable and I agree that it won't matter to the person you're doing the detail for. But, they aren't the only ones seeing the car. I do it to make the sell for others looking at the car, not just to bring that one customer back.
 
I agree with your tactics BuffMe, and share the same passion. I will also say that 90 plus % of the people on the street that see our work dont fully understand what they are looking at. Most see a fully detailed car just like they see a car that just came out of a tunnel wash. So there is an argument for both sides I guess. Again, I do see your point though.



............................................................Chris :D
 
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