No Hand Detailing Here (Blue Honda)

A

Anthony O.

New member
After reading the post by Clean Dean on hand detailing I felt prompted to post up some pictures of this detail I did on a dark blue Honda even though I don't have all the AFTER pics yet. My battery died after the second picture:angry I'll have the rest of the AFTERS next week.

Now I have done my share of cars by hand and I in fact did lots of work on this car by hand BUT I believe in order to be a complete and well rounded detailer you should be well versed in all aspects of detailing which would include the rotary.

I would of never tackled this Honda without the rotary because it leveled the paint 10 times faster than if by hand alone. Sure it is possible to work the paint to a satisfactory finish by hand alone but when one considers the time it takes to do so it is not cost effective.

I had this Honda for several weeks and I was able to experiment on it with various products and pads (2 new pads from Lake Country that Irene is carrying) and after doing some testing I went to work on it with my rotary and an orange Lake Country pad and Hi-Temps Heavy Cut Leveler.

After that came Hi-Temps Med. Cut and a white LC polishing pad. Menzerna IP finished out the rotary work. I could of waxed it after that step but I figured that some FP applied with the Cyclo and AIO by hand would really give a rich gloss to the paint.

FMJ was applied as the topper.

Here is the hood and this is my only BEFORE of the paint but the whole exterior looked just like the hood.....ugh!
 
Now remember I only have 2 AFTER pics right now but next week I'll post up more AFTER's.

Here is a shot of the Honda AFTER from the drivers side.
 
Shot of the hood AFTER.....the white specks are rock chips....had lots of rock chips. This Honda is your basic daily beater but since I was allowed to have it for several weeks I went above and beyond what I would normally do for a car in this shape.

Last picture until next week......I also have some interior shots to post up.
 
LC pads

Big A,

How are the new pads? Are they more flat? Let us know...

Man, that was a mess of a finish! I'd even go as aggressive as Menzerna PO-85RD or even 106! I really like the Menzerna MP or FP-II as it marketed by CMA. Have you tried the gaze? Nice stuff!

Problem I see with people using Menzerna is they are not aware it's an OEM product and work it to death! Gotta move fast with it and it works so damn well!

I was at PBW detail day today and you want to see a mess? There was a '36 or so Chevy, black laquer that looked as if someone washed it with a Scotchbright! No joke! The pattern lines are consistent with one of those pads. Well, a 4-PC symphony was working on it as I said to them,
a) It's laquer! If you have no idea how many coats are on it, no rotary is to touch it
b) Test for SSR2.5 use under heavy swirls and scratches on laquer.

Not bad! It turned out pretty nice!

Have a nice weekend!

Regards,
Deanski
 
After reading the post by Clean Dean on hand detailing, do you also feel prompted to talk your ability of earning a respectable dollar? Wasn't that what his original post was asking about?

Exactly how much profit is there in doing restoration detailings?

What was the charge on doing that Blue Honda?

What kind of hourly rate do you realize doing a restoration detailing?

What kind of hourly rate do you realize doing a regular maintenance detailing?

How does your hourly rate for a restoration detailing compare to your regular maintenance detailings?

Based on your experience, what's more profitable, doing a restoration detailing or doing regular maintenance detailings?

Please be truthful.
 
what type of detailing could he have done on that car if not restoration? I don't think you could have been considered respectable to have left swirls all over the car and then cover it with wax? I think it brings it one step further, if you are a true detailer, how can you only detail with a PC? You need a rotarty for where the pc ends.
 
Anthony,

I wouldn't necessarily act upon replying to Mirrorman's post. To me, asking what others charge is somewhat invasive when they don't really know you. Personally, there are very different levels of detailing, which in my opinion, sets a level for an asking price. I personally would have PM'ed Anthony on this subject.

This Honda, as Anthony said, was NOT a regular detail. He had it for several weeks, and said so himself, that he did more to it than normal. Sure, he could tell you that he charged $400, $500 bucks, but what would that matter? He got the job done and made a "respectable dollar". There aren't major fillers in here, and the right equipment and skill sets were being used. There was no false advertising about what the car looks like in the end.

If you did this by hand, you would have to charge much more in order to make a decent living as you said, or more than likely, you would turn it down and leave it to the trolls. That's your business, but not the 90% of what others do on here. It seems that you are all about the money, and pride of "restoring" something means little to you. I have full faith that there is no way you would achieve these results Frank with the same products doing it by hand.

By all means Anthony, the work is stunning, and as per your suggestions on all the TOL products, I called Irene up again and just got my Medium Cut and some other goodies to try out.

For now, I will let my other "trolls of detailing" take all this in and reflect.
 
Something to be said about Hondas in general (I own one), the paint quality is really par at best. But that goes without saying really. Its nature is to be economical.

On that note, most Hondas will require more work due to the poorer quality finish and neglect associated with these typically high mileage autos. But, most owners wont pay $300+ to have their beater detailed. I see that this Honda was not the typical detail and Im sure Anthony got paid fine.

BTW, why not tell us what you charged? Whats the big deal? Its what being on these forums is all about, information.
 
mirrorfinishman...

From my previous thread...

cleandean: All of my current customers have demanding needs. That's why they trust someone who only details by hand. And your guess that all hand detailed cars are 'garage queens' is simply not true. That's just another one of your assumptions about hand detailing
Click to expand...

Maintenance detailing is obviously in my opinion not as demanding as taking on cars that have not been detailed regularly. It may and should be very profitable for you, and for that I take my hat off to you. You must be fortunate enough to selectively maintain your customer's vehicles, and not take on cars that will require more effort, skill, and time. Lets face it from a business standpoint you have it good if all your details are "maintenance" cars.

I realize that you have been in the business since 1986, and during that time you must have established your "niche" market of maintenance details. I still do not understand "hand detailing" other than it has some marketing merits for those who believe that a machine will harm their finish no matter what the skill level of the operator.

I maintain my own cars (don't we all) and treat my Black 1993 Mercedes as if it were a museum piece. I machine (light) polish the car (1 or 2) times a year and will use the PC on her when needed. I still would not hand polisher the car because it lacks efficiency and it will waste the one thing I never have enough of ... TIME !!! Why hand polish in an hour what will take the PC about 10 minutes.

In conclusion, Anthony I am glad that you share with us the inspiring restoration details that you perform, and judging from your experience and reputation there is not a doubt in my mind that you are fairly compensated !!!

BTW... Thank you Poorboy for answering my questions asked on the previous thread !
 
mirrorfinishman said:
After reading the post by Clean Dean on hand detailing, do you also feel prompted to talk your ability of earning a respectable dollar? Wasn't that what his original post was asking about?

Exactly how much profit is there in doing restoration detailings?

What was the charge on doing that Blue Honda?

What kind of hourly rate do you realize doing a restoration detailing?

What kind of hourly rate do you realize doing a regular maintenance detailing?

How does your hourly rate for a restoration detailing compare to your regular maintenance detailings?

Based on your experience, what's more profitable, doing a restoration detailing or doing regular maintenance detailings?

Please be truthful.
Click to expand...

Frank,

It appears, and this just might be me, but it appears that you have a rather large chip on your shoulder because when ever one does not see things your way you seem to take it personally.

My purpose for posting this was not to irk you nor to challenge you in any way, in fact I never mentioned your name, but rather my purpose was to show that a mere hand detailing would not give me the results that a rotary would. Your response is from one who lacks confidence. I mean no offense by this but after years of debating, you in some sense saw my post as a personal attack, perhaps even threatening. Not my intention at all.

Now as I stated I had this car for weeks, not all in a row, but the car was available to me whenever things got slow and I could just work on it at my leisure. Now I went above and beyond what I would normally do for a car like this and he even told me it's a daily driver BUT he did pay me $500 for my troubles.

Now I make more money, consistently at least, doing maintenance work BUT how challenging is it to just do upkeep and maintenance? It gets boring:rolleyes: So I welcome cars like this Honda or the red Porsche I did some time ago because they test me. I charge a premium for my detailing but I make more money if I were to wash 10 cars in one day than if I did a $300 detail in one day but my enjoyment is in the detail so I don't do it for money because almost always that $300 detail turns into a weekly wash which in turn gives me consistent money.

Again I mean no offense by this post so don't take it like that.

Thanks,
Anthony
 
Anthony Orosco said:
Frank,
It appears that you have a rather large chip on your shoulder because when ever one does not see things your way you seem to take it personally.

Your response is from one who lacks confidence.

...you in some sense saw my post as a personal attack, perhaps even threatening.
Click to expand...

Anthony,
Very dramatically said.

Are these responses also personal attacks or do they just come from those who also lack confidence?

QUOTE: Nickc0844,
"I have full faith that there is no way you would achieve these results Frank with the same products doing it by hand."

QUOTE: Poorboy,
"Gee I was really going to stay out of this only because i can't see myself ever really siding with Frank"

Quote: GearHead_1,
"I'm not trying to throw fuel on a fire here. I'm having a hard time understanding how you can service only the high end maintenance type customer"

Quote: dr_detail,
"I'm sure if he ever needs someone to train those intermediate detailers how to become professional ones, he will ask those of us here at DC who are."

Quote: dr_detail,
"Bigron, although I agree with you, and it sounds a little wimpy on Frank's part. Having done this (detailing) for as long as Frank -- I do see the merits in Frank's methodology. Do the easy cars, do the easy work, filter out the crap -- if it won't come clean by hand waxing, send them elsewhere (i.e. work smarter not harder), and charge more than anyone else because if it cost's the most, it must be the best. However there comes a time when experience outweighs arrogance and we move past it."

Quote: Nickc0844,
"For one to charge $50 is rediculous. Are you paying for the knowledge of the rotary work or simply because it is by hand?"

Quote: Nickc0844,
"Your wrong by saying that a rotary is not effiecient......IT'S ALL ABOUT EFFICIENCY using a rotary. You say that you charge $225 for about 4 hours of work. What all do you do in that 4 hours?"

Quote: Nickc0844,
"Granted, I think my friend BigRon got a little antsy, but he does have a point; Respect is earned on this forum, not spoon fed."

Quote: bigron62,
"WHAT A JOKE ... when it comes to doing some real paintwork you run away because you are scared .. straight up .. yea i get nervous but i have to get the job done & I GET BETTER ALL THE TIME .. im not buying into your nonsense .. i feel sorry for these poor people you serve because you are not able to meet all thier needs & you think thats ok .. then you want to come on here & tell us how great you are .. sorry pal im not buying it. you call yourself a leader in this industry and you cant even use the most basic tools of the trade this is hilarious"



Last post on this topic.
 
Frank you really don't get it do you. You all but got banned at Autopia for your attitude and spaming. You have not earned an ounce of respect by being so stand offish. You talk a mean talk but you've yet to really contribute anything besides marketing info which I believe was just to push your books you sell. All of the quotes in your last post were very personal and directed at you , why becasue you asked for them you can't excpect not to get slamed when you have such a chip on your shoulder. Personally I do not respect you as a detailer becasue you don't detail , honestly I'm not sure what you do if you do anything at all. You say you only service high end maintenance customers and you don't do the dirty work such as swirl removal. Honestly Frank how do you detail anything , I know your market it use to be my home town , the highest dealership you have is BMW which is probally the lowest quality BMW dealership in the state , all of their cars come out with swirls. In reality almost every new car comes out of the dealership with defects that the dealer either didn't fix or created themselfs. So what are you detailing? Really if you don't do defect removal how do you detail anything, the acid rain alone in the area is a major problem, fact is all cars have defects that need to be removed or reduced. Defect removal is detailing and it can be done by hand , PC or rotary but it has to be done some how some way or you're not a real detailer. With that being said Frank can we see some pictures of your work , I'd would like to see for myself the level of cars you service and the level of your work.

To everyone else sorry for my rant , and I understand if this needs to be deleted by the mods. I just had to speak my mind about this , since I'm in Franks back yard.
 
Anthony beautiful work on the Honda , your work is some of the absolute best I've ever seen.

To the other two trolls of detailing , Nickc0844 , Clean Dean you two have gained my respect as professional detailers your work is on par with the best and so is your attitude and professionalism.

These guys have impressed me So much so that I've even reccomended Clean Dean to a customer that has moved out of my service area, and other customer who was on vacation in Nicks area and I haven't even meet either of them yet. Great work speaks for it self!:bigups
 
confidence...

Is one thing that group of detailers does not lack.

To the other two trolls of detailing , Nickc0844 , Clean Dean you two have gained my respect as professional detailers your work is on par with the best and so is your attitude and professionalism.
Click to expand...

detailbarn ... Thanks for your kind words. Much appreciated !!! I could see us NJ detailers organizing to meet up one night for a beer or soda (under 21 guys included) and to talk shop. I know M23Accord like myself would be in .

:band
 
detailbarn,

I appreciate you seeing things the way most of us do here. It is unfortunate, but when people do this to us, I feel like less of a detailer. Then I look back at exactly what I have done and just laugh it off.

But your absolutely right, the camaraderie here on DC is amazing.
 
Frank,

At times I think your posts are amusing but seldom do I find them benificial. In your last post you quote me but only a portion of what was actually stated. In fact you completely changed what I have written to make your case sound a little better. That's low Frank and someone needs to call you on it. It is considered appropriate that when you quote someone and don't complete the entire thought to throw in the periods (....) at the end of your quote allowing others to know that this is an incomplete quote or thought or that you are bringing 2 different statements together.

To me it appears that at times you have a problem backing up your claims with a specific response. It also appears that when someone raises a question you consider it a personal attack and either make a post with little basis, very generic or make a statement in your post that says something along the lines of: last post on this topic. The fact that you've been in business since 1986 doesn't mean all that much. I know of "pan handlers" that have been in my area "conducting business" for the past 15 years, it ain't honest but they make a living. I don't find you or your claims credible.

Of course I'm fairly sure that you'll just consider my post as one more personal attack and though this post is somewhat harsh the one you quoted me on wasn't. It seems like a number of individuals make similar comments to your posts. Just maybe there is something to be learned here, of course it will have to be "us" that do the learning because you either can't or choose not to. Not great qualities for one who claims to be a teacher. Truly a legend in your own mind. Though you've claimed to make your last post on this topic I know you'll read this. Pot stirrers always do.

:lmfao

Having said all this, you insinuated that perhaps I lack confidece. I'm willing to put my work up against yours. Post some pictures, show us what you do. Bring it on.

Wow, this almost sounds like a streak of confidence.
 
Last edited:
Response from Frank to board Are these responses also personal attacks or do they just come from those who also lack confidence?

Confidence comes from a sheet of wetsand paper and a rotary!

Response to Frank from Nickc0844 Respect is earned on this forum, not spoon fed.

Nuff said :)
 
I visit this forum to learn information about detailing. Anthony started this thread , to demonstrate his great work with a rotary, and explain how he achieves those results. Now the thread is basically a few of you guys taking shots at each other. Its too bad it has to be that way because that type of stuff ruins good informative threads. Lets just try to keep the personal stuff out of the threads.

Thanks, Brad Will
 
Frank,

One must take all things within their "context" in order to fully grasp what is going on or what is being said. To ignore the context or to overlook the context one then is in danger of being misinformed. You have overlooked the context of my post and in so doing you have lashed out in a way that has scored you no points among anyone on this forum, professional or amateur.

Again let me state that my purpose of this post was not to attack you nor to question your abilities as a detailer for once again your name was never mentioned BUT what my thread is about is how I do not believe hand detailing alone could give me the results that a rotary does. You replied as if I personally attacked you but even after my second post, in which I apologized if it seemed that way, you completely ignored it and my other responses.

In your second post you asked me specific questions which I believe I did respond to but once again you only respond to what you see as a personal attack. Why did you ignore my response as a whole and yet only focus on one specific area?

I find your response and behavior rather odd because after your list of questions to me you stated "Please be truthful" and I have been nothing but truthful in my responses and yet you overlook the one area of this thread that could be meaningful and informative to both you and I and others. That area is how is one able to hand detail a car with heavy swirls and remove all swirls and/or scratches? Your response should of been about how you go about restoring a finish by hand and NOT about how you think or feel you got the shaft. There is no reason why you needed to respond as you did.

For all others, I hope to post up some more pictures of this Honda in the coming days. We laid my dad to rest this morning and I am back in the saddle as of tomorrow. I do apologize for the thread getting off track and if anyone does have any advice on hand detailing (which I believe has its place in detailing) please use this thread as a sounding board.

Thanks all,
Anthony
 
Anthony, as always, your pics are greatly appreciated and admired. You have earned my respect for the profession you excel at. It's odd that Mr. Canna seems to ruffle feathers wherever he goes. I remember the same type of behavior at Autopia. He earned no points or respect.

God bless you and your family during this time of your life.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top