Wet Sanding Reveals Strange Ovals in Paint?! (Pics Within)

Having read the OP again...



Are the rings around the patch job or outside it? You said "near" in the OP.



If the rings are not even aroud your patch job then my post is way off.
 
ABQDetailer said:
Having read the OP again...



Are the rings around the patch job or outside it? You said "near" in the OP.



If the rings are not even aroud your patch job then my post is way off.



Take a look at the pics in the 1st post... the rings are near the stone chip I was repairing but not encircling it.
 
DownFlyer said:
Take a look at the pics in the 1st post... the rings are near the stone chip I was repairing but not encircling it.



If that section of your car wasn't recently resprayed by you then you for surely got into the primer.



At this point you could try to do a blend job on it yourself since the proper way of fixing it is to respray the whole panel. What have you got to lose now?



Hell why stop there? Go ahead and practice on the whole panel...see if you can sand away some orange peel....etc ;)



Sorry for the confusion. Ignore my rant above.
 
ABQDetailer said:
If that section of your car wasn't recently resprayed by you then you for surely got into the primer.

Well I am not the original owner so I don't know for sure that it was never re-sprayed. But yeah maybe I should just go the proper body shop route.
 
DownFlyer said:
Anyone?



I would also consider solicitations from detailing people in the Toronto area who can fix this properly.



Heya. I am from Toronto, if you would like I can take a look at the spot and determine what it is. From the pictures I'd say with about 95% certainty that you've sanded into the primer. I haven't noticed any particular "thinness" in the Madza's I've detailed, but it's possible you just sanded a little too vigorously; it happens.



As for fixing it properly, if you have sanded into the primer the only way to fix it is to re-spray.
 
Picus said:
Heya. I am from Toronto, if you would like I can take a look at the spot and determine what it is. From the pictures I'd say with about 95% certainty that you've sanded into the primer. I haven't noticed any particular "thinness" in the Madza's I've detailed, but it's possible you just sanded a little too vigorously; it happens.



As for fixing it properly, if you have sanded into the primer the only way to fix it is to re-spray.



Thanks for your response.



Under bright light it appears that it's "almost" to the primer... I was confused because there still appears to be a really thin layer of coloured paint on top, so the bright camera flash saw the primer but my normal view was really different depending on the angle. But once I got out the bright light, the situation was obvious to see.



Do you think that it is a good idea to tape around the area when wet sanding? I'm thinking that would provide extra protection, but it could also lead to some surface unevenness in the paint.



Can you recommend a good shop for this? I was thinking 427 Auto Collision.



Also, by "re-spray" so you mean just a respray of the localised area or of the entire panel?
 
DownFlyer said:
Also, by "re-spray" so you mean just a respray of the localised area or of the entire panel?



You could easily get a pro blend job but redoing the whole panel is the proper way to do it.
 
DownFlyer said:
Thanks for your response.



Under bright light it appears that it's "almost" to the primer... I was confused because there still appears to be a really thin layer of coloured paint on top, so the bright camera flash saw the primer but my normal view was really different depending on the angle. But once I got out the bright light, the situation was obvious to see.



Do you think that it is a good idea to tape around the area when wet sanding? I'm thinking that would provide extra protection, but it could also lead to some surface unevenness in the paint.



Can you recommend a good shop for this? I was thinking 427 Auto Collision.



Also, by "re-spray" so you mean just a respray of the localised area or of the entire panel?



I don't tape when I wetsand, but I've been doing it awhile. Generally I won't use a "tool" like an eraser, because it adds to much pressure. I use my fingers and sort of "glide" the sandpaper over a decently large area (similar to the amount of area you covered). For what it's worth I don't think taping off the area would lead to un-eveness; when the sanding marring is compounded out the paint looks identical to the paint around it, so if you sand properly there should be no difference. It's possible this car just has thin paint, but if you do sand in the future I'd do it by hand or with a flexible sanding block (which is much larger than a pencil eraser) and use almost no pressure.



When I say re-spray I mean the entire panel. As mentioned you could have someone do a blown in (which is like blending), but if you want it perfect the only option is to paint the entire panel. 427 auto is a good choice (imo), just be very specific about what you want (good paint match, no overspray, no tape lines, OEM orange peel) and they should do it.
 
Thanks for your comments, everyone.



1. What is the disadvantage of a localised spray versus re-doing the whole panel? (it is the hood.) Any idea on the relative costs? I kinda wanted to do the hood all along because of various stone chips and some apparent vandalism.



2. What is "orange peel" and how do I know if they've done it right?



3. Do they remove the old paint and primer before repainting?
 
The main disadvantage to a blend is the color match, or in this case the metallic flake match (or both, really). On metallic paint it's tough to blend in a small area without making it obvious the area has been touched up. If you're looking to fill in numerous chips at the same time a blend is pretty much out of the picture, as blending just the front of the hood would almost certainly look ridiculous.



Before I go into cost, orange peel. Orange peel is the effect you see when looking at the reflections in paint. Next time you look at your car notice how the reflections are slightly distorted, almost as if the surface of the paint has the consistency of an un-peeled orange. That's orange peel. Here is an example: http://gtaindetail.com/pics/g35051907/r.jpg Check out my arm, and how it looks distorted, that's orange peel. Your car will have some, an important part of matching paint is to get a similar amount of orange peel on the resprayed section as the rest of the car. A lot of times re-sprays have much *more* orange peel than OEM paint, which looks bad.



On cost, re-spraying a hood in Toronto correctly will run ~$450-$550 give or take $50. A blend will likely be half that.
 
Thanks for all your help again.



This is totally my own fault but I think David should really update that Paint Clinic article to give some indication that it's easy to mess up wet sanding, as it really gives no warning at all.
 
Is this the same car in those four pictures? In one of the pictures it looks like a purple car, and then in the other three it looks like a gray car. Are my eyes failing me? I remember my cousin talking about this one BMW that he said was purple, but I clearly saw it as a dark grey. And the primer is green? Weird stuff.
 
Damn, Bence!! That is a damn good post. Thank you.





Bence said:
DownFlyer, you went through the clearcoat, the color coat and dug into the primer. So, the panel is toast. The primer itself is a hard layer, so it will be as smooth as the attacking sandpaper. The problem is with wetsanding is pressure and finger marks. When you are inexperienced, try to act like a hovercraft; just barely touching the paint. After a few strokes, stop, wet the surface even more, wipe it down and inspect. The sanding marks should show a pattern, as you're starting to abrade the peaks of the factory orange peel away. So the paint is gonna be half shiny (in the valleys of the orange peel) and half matte (peaks). It looks marbled. Continue carefully, and when you reached the point where the sanded surface is totally uniform and matte, stop. Bring back the shine and done.



Finger marks are typical marks in the paint when you wetsand with your hand as the backing. The paper works under your fingers correctly, but between them the pressure is smaller, and this results in an ugly, wavy surface. Sometimes your fingers miss the target, aka the filled chip, and you sand down more on the side of the chip instead of hitting it directly. So, when you want good results, always use a nice, flexible backing, because it can follow the contours of the area. A rigid sanding block is only good for flat surfaces, and produces an attack point like yours.
 
MikeWinLDS said:
Is this the same car in those four pictures? In one of the pictures it looks like a purple car, and then in the other three it looks like a gray car. Are my eyes failing me? I remember my cousin talking about this one BMW that he said was purple, but I clearly saw it as a dark grey. And the primer is green? Weird stuff.



1. Yes, it is the same car in all pics.



2. The car is either grey or purple depending on the viewing angle and lighting conditions. The first "purple" photo is with flash, all the others are without flash.



(Side story: When I originally picked the car up from the dealer, I thought it was the wrong car because the lighting conditions made it look really deep purple that day!)



3. The "green" primer is also a trick of the light. That was taken with no flash in fluorescent lighting. I sanded "almost" all the way through the coloured coat, so I think the combination of the lighting and tinting from the thin layer of coloured paint made the primer look green. Using the naked eye, the primer looks off-white.
 
DownFlyer, unfortunately it's not "almost through". As you can see, the sanded surface is the matte clearcoat. Inside, there is the first circle, the bigger one; thats the colorcoat - but it's lighter than the normal, untouched paint next to the sanded area. That means that there is no clearcoat any more, but the pigment, aka colorcoat is still present there. The smaller circle, the greenish one where the colorcoat is disappeared and you reached the primer.



When you burn paint with the rotary or thin down the clear with a cutting pad to the strike-through point. the color will be always lighter, as the clear doesn't darken (cover) it any more. Absolutely comparable effects.
 
Is there any problem with temporarily covering this up with some touch up paint until I can get it properly re-sprayed? (Obviously the touch up paint will look like crap but it would be better than white primer.)
 
It will help aesthetics somewhat. From corrosion point of view, you don't have to worry.



You may try to build layer of paint with an airbrush.
 
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