Taking aluminum to autopian standard?

[Todd@RUPES]

Here are some progress pictures. The shine is really comming up, but I think I am going to call it quits after this and try some of the suggestions on this board.



Near side before

Whole top after

 

[Frito Bandito]

Just starting to get into metal polishing myself since I just got some billet wheels on my truck. My only suggestion would be to finish with a finer metal polish like Mothers Billet. Forrest of Mothers said in the past that Billet is their finest metal polish. I also have Deep Alume but have yet to try it.



FYI - Advance Auto in my area seems to be closing Mothers Billet out. They have it marked down to $8 instead of the usual $16 on the clearance table.

 

[Jason M]

One other thing. That exhaust looks like stainless to me. Get a magnet and that will tell you real quick. Stainless is usually magnetic and Aluminum isn't. The only exception is stainless that has been cold worked or has a high nickel content. Stainless turbo turbine housings come to mind. I doubt the outer case of a muffler has very much nickel. Hard polishing can reduce the magnetic properties also IIRC. Either way I highly doubt it's aluminum given the amount of heat it has to deal with. Probably very thin wall stainless that gives it that aluminum lightness.

 

[Todd@RUPES]

Here is a post where a 1922 Rolls Royce (aliminum body) was polished..





Most of us have a set of winter tires in the garage - you have a Ferrari exhaust system... to funny:bigups





http://www.autopia.org/forum/click-brag/76762-spirit-ecstasy-1922-rolls-royce-silver-ghost.html

Yes I remember that post and will review it. Thanks Jason, lots of good info and an incrediable detail.

What about steel wool?

Would you recommend I do this instead of compounding with wool? My goal isn't to get that very shiny look, but rather refine the finish to autopian paint standard.

I just got some of the English Custom polishes as well Todd. I was pretty impressed with them but not blown away. I think you can do just as well with some of the other readily available metal polishes (Wenol, Impressive Reflections, Mothers Billet, Simichrome, etc)



Looking forward to some pictures of the exhaust...

Thanks Pat, I think I am becoming obsessed with metal correction now

Should be an interesting thread. One thing I do know is it sure is a dirty job!

No kidding...

what about deep alum i believe its called.

I think Mother, Deep Alum, etc are more like LSP's that have some chemical cleaning. As with paint, I am more intrested in the correction and polishing aspect.

I use to do some aluminum polishing with metal compounds and polishes that come in bars and use with Buffing Wheels and Mushroom Buffing Wheels. I hoped this might help you out Todd.

Angelo, this is exactly what I am talking about. I know that finishers use a lot of rogues and so forth, will they increase the appearance that much. Most new aluminum and chrome is pretty "swirled" from the factory, so I am wondering how many people care about swirl free metal..lol.

Todd: for aluminum, I typically start with an aggressive polish like Simichrome and a sewn cotton buffing wheel attachment for a drill. (this process is for smooth metals. for "as cast"...you need to use a sanding wheel).



I get the finish in the condition I want, then move to English Custom with another clean buffing wheel. Following that, I use Meguiar's NXT Metal Polysh and another cotton buffing wheel. Mother's Billet Creme works well as a final step.



My Team III wheels

For harder metals like stainless, I start with Simichrome and 1,500 grit paper and work my way to 2000 grit. Then use the buffing wheels similar to above.



Stainless SLP Exhaust

Finally, are you sure the exhaust is aluminum? Generally that metal is a poor choice for exhaust due to the corrosive action and heat of exhaust systems.



Toto

Thanks for the awesome post Toto. Like I said, I think they are aluminum but I will find out. It seems the thought here is that it is likely stainless so I will have to do more research, I honestly have no idea. What differences would there be in polishing the different grades of metal?

Are you sure those pipes and tips aren't stainless? Some grades of stainless will discolor.

Not sure :nixweiss

Here ya go:



https://www.micro-surface.com/default.cfm?page_id=1





This is where I get my 4000 grit sandpaper from.

Thank you David. I looked around the site but being a kind of newb (I understand the concepts) I find the site difficult to figure out. What should I order and where are the instructions. A very nice link though and I will have to visit back when I get a little more experience.

Have you tried playing around with the last polish, replacing mother's mag? Adam's #1 & #2 with the right buffing tools/materials are good. Think it all varies with metal type, application style (mostly not hand for deteriorated metals).

I have to agree with Toto that on GP's I would expect the exhaust to be stainless, and from the pictures I would say that it is. Aluminum looks more "white".

Do you know the specific differences between polishing the different metals. I would assume (always dangerous) that aluminum is softer and needs a less agressive polish where as steel would require something with more cut? It is heavy so you guys are probably correct.

The key to getting metal to really shine is sanding. Metal shows minor scratches and is tougher to fill than paint. Starting with 1500grit and going as high as you can stand and/or find is the best option. Once it looks like you have all the micro scratches out clean with a solvent such as laquer thinner. A couple wipes and you should be getting no more black off. Once that's done I have had good luck with various metal polishes. If the piece is not going to be heated you can get some good results with your normal polish and wax routine. Something with some fillers like Meg's #9 is a good choice as it will give that last little bit of pop.

Thank you Jason M. I will try wetsanding next. After wetsanding (or do you do it dry) do you go straight to a metal polish or go for something with abrasives?

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Stainless is usually magnetic and Aluminum isn't. The only exception is stainless that has been cold worked or has a high nickel content.

"Ordinary" stainless exhausts are usually 409 or similar 400-series, known as ferritic stainlesses, which are magnetic. Some aftermarket, and perhaps Ferrari exhausts are 300-series (austenitic) which is generally not magnetic, but magnetism can be induced in these alloys to a limited degree through cold working.

 

[Todd@RUPES]

Just starting to get into metal polishing myself since I just got some billet wheels on my truck. My only suggestion would be to finish with a finer metal polish like Mothers Billet. Forrest of Mothers said in the past that Billet is their finest metal polish. I also have Deep Alume but have yet to try it.



FYI - Advance Auto in my area seems to be closing Mothers Billet out. They have it marked down to $8 instead of the usual $16 on the clearance table.

Thanks for the tip. Are the mother's polishes abrasive?

One other thing. That exhaust looks like stainless to me. Get a magnet and that will tell you real quick. Stainless is usually magnetic and Aluminum isn't. The only exception is stainless that has been cold worked or has a high nickel content. Stainless turbo turbine housings come to mind. I doubt the outer case of a muffler has very much nickel. Hard polishing can reduce the magnetic properties also IIRC. Either way I highly doubt it's aluminum given the amount of heat it has to deal with. Probably very thin wall stainless that gives it that aluminum lightness.

Thanks again Jason. I tested the magenetic theory and it didn't stick. The tips are defientely a different material as opposed to the rest of the system.

 

[ehuth1]

Although this might not be "autopian standard" I would like to share my small process on some forged weld wheels I did on H2.



Befores

1st step was to completely start from ground zero. I have always cleaned tailpipes and any uncoated aluminum other than wheels with my AIM Chrome & Aluminum Brightner. This basically cleaned the crap out the wheels eliminating surface contamination and create a ready to polish surface. Once the low ph acid was sprayed, I let dwell for 30 seconds to a minute then hand scrubbed and blasted off with the pressure washer. The acid starts to react so fast that it foams!



After Acid

Next I use a Mothers powerball and some cutting polish I purchased from a guy off ebay Welcome to Bad Dog Polish - industrial strength aluminum polish He sent me the instructions on how to make my own, but I'm still looking for it on my HD... It's pretty obvious is a green medium cut polish made from melting a block of compound into mineral spiritz... anyways this was the first pass. Wipe on with terry app, then high speed buff with powerball. The next pass was with Mother aluminum polish to cover any fine scratches (same process as before) Next I took Duragloss aluminum polish in the tin and tore off tiny pieces to work the outside edges near the simulated beadlock. After about 30 minutes this is what I ended up with. The lsp I used to seal the look was DG501

Flash Shots

 

[Jason M]

I dry sand at 1500 until I KNOW I have out all the deeper scratches. Something that helps me see is to go all in one direction. As soon as all the scratches are going in that direction I switch to then next grit and go the other way until all the scratches run that way and so on. When I am at 2000grit I start dry and then move to wet once I have all the 1500 marks out. Go full wet from there. As far as abrasives from there I like to use some jewlers rouge (generally the finest you can find amongst polishing blocks) like this:

Jestco Products Buffing Supply - Red Buffing Compound-Jewelers rouge (Powered by CubeCart)

Those go on best with a cotton polishg wheel in a dremel or die grinder or some other high RPM device. A bench grinder will work but a hand held drill generally doesn't have high enough RPM's to get the job done. Finish with your finest metal polish or some cleaner wax by hand and I'm guessing that's the best you will get. It all comes down to time sanding in my experience though.



Their glass polishing kit really caught my eye. I think it's going in my shopping cart soon!



One last thing about the material. I think it's 304 stainless, which isn't magnetic. ALuminum isn't generally used for exhaust as it goes liquid around 1500F IIRC. It gets soft way before that though. They might get away with it around the case but you wouldn't really see any weight advantage as it would need to be thicker material. As far as the tips go, you usually don't weld aluminum and steel. I think a friction weld is the only way you can and I don't see ferrari doing that. Aluminum is just too finicky to be good exhaust stock.

 

[Todd@RUPES]

I tried the wet sanding. I didn't read your post in time, but started with 1000 wet in the opposite direction of the most common sanding marks. I probably sanded for 10 minutes straight but still had some deeper scratches running in the opposite direction. After getting 99 percent of the scratches out, I moved to 1500, 2000, 2500, 3000 all wet.



Then I used Power Gloss and wool pad, followed by SIP orange and 106ff blue. The finish is easily the best yet, but I think I will have to buy dedicated metal polishes as I found removing the sanding marks very tedious. I made 5 or so passes with wool and power gloss to remove some of them.



Before, taped up...

Afters

 

[imported_Grouse]

todd,



give me a call tomorrow. There are polishes for this kind of stuff but it is not in the ordinary places a detailer would look.

 

[Todd@RUPES]

Okay will do. Thank you

 

[NCZ13]

wow... that looks excellent

 

[maesal]

What about Britemax metal polish?

 

[salty]

Todd I'm sure that shine would pass 99.9% of the time. But i know you are a perfectionist.



I have being doing a little metal polishing lately and it is a different animal. Instead of soft or hard clear there is metal alloy composition to take into account.



I think one must start looking into dedicated products.



Also in this link it mentions heat buildup (at the bottom) as the last step to removing the haze.



Frequently Asked Questions - Southwest Metal Finishing Supply



Keep us informed.

 

[Todd@RUPES]

Todd I'm sure that shine would pass 99.9% of the time. But i know you are a perfectionist.



I have being doing a little metal polishing lately and it is a different animal. Instead of soft or hard clear there is metal alloy composition to take into account.



I think one must start looking into dedicated products.



Also in this link it mentions heat buildup (at the bottom) as the last step to removing the haze.



Frequently Asked Questions - Southwest Metal Finishing Supply



Keep us informed.

Great link, you rock Salty!

 

[Way2SSlow]

Adams also makes some metal polishes.

I have the Adam's Metal Polish #1 and #2. I like it a lot. I've yet to use it on my aluminum wheels with a machine; however, it seems to cut pretty fast. I tried it out by hand and was pretty amazed at the results for the amount of time I had in it. I've used it on a stainless steel Smith and Wesson as well with great results.

 

[TortoiseAWD]

Awesome results for using a rotary and paint polishes, but for metal polishing, they really aren't the right tools . . .



This is what would really make short work of the job:

See this site for metal polishing supplies: Buffing Polishing Supplies Buffing Wheels Compound Polishing Aluminum Polishing Kit - Caswell Inc.



Here for an excellent write-up on the basics of metal polishing: Introduction To Buffing and Polishing - Caswell Inc.



A more complete PDF: http://www.caswellplating.com/buffs/Buffbook.pdf



IMO, you'd have better luck with a drill and buffs made for metal polishing:

And compounds that are intended for metal:

Caswell even makes a kit specifically for use with any drill that will take a 1/4" shaft (comes with an arbor adaptor, various buffs, bobs, and compounds): Caswell Inc. - Handheld Drill Buffing Kit



Good luck. I have a Baldor metal polisher out in my garage, but rarely have a chance to use it anymore. Metal polishing is just as addictive as paint polishing, but it's a much dirtier job. Regardless, my inner-primate likes shiny things . . .



Hope the links provide some help,

Tort

 

[imported_Grouse]

Caswell I swhat i was going to try and explain over the phone. Really buffing should be done on a 3/4-1.5hp buffing machine. My first job was polishing jewlery for my mothers boss. So that is how i was introduced to caswell type products back in the 80's

 

[stilez]

Cool thread, Todd.



I've always liked using Flitz for most metal work.



If you look at the German Menzerna site, they *do* make metal polishes. They sell to the likes of Tiffany&Co for their polishing needs. I'm not sure if you could purchase some from that line, but it may be an option.

 

[BuffMe]

Caswell will certainly be getting approximately $55 from me very soon.