NXT durability- bah!

BillNorth said:
I don't think we've missed the positives. Almost anything looks good the day of/day after application so long as decent prep was done to the surface. What sets the truly outstanding products apart from the rest of the of pack is how well they hold up over an extended period of time, and how good the paint looks. I could put sald or baby oil all over my car and it would probably blow all the products we use away in terms of looks, etc. But how long will it last, and how good will the paint look after a brutal winter?



Bill.



Souveran and P21S last about 2 weeks on my daily drivers and excellent just after application. Still I consider them 2 of my very best LSP in my arsenal. Yes this may be comparing apples and oranges (carnuaba/sealant) but my main goal under normal circumstances is appearance and only when durability is needed I use Klasse and Zaino ( see thread on Zaino re-visited). IMO why look anywhere else for the combination of beauty and longevity.



dlw and others have stated the positives and reasons why and when they will continue to use NXT. My statement was for those that may want to try NXT and are sway away because they lost the big picture of their wants and needs (appearance, ease of usage,etc.)
 
Bob, i have to agree with Bret here, Autopia is a very dicreminating organization of enthusiasts, who trully care about whats going on, especially in new product evaluations. I'd be scared to introduce a new product on this board unless i knew for certain it would pass with flying colors ! Now, maybe NXT as being a consumer line product, fits the bill in that regard, but as far as professionals or discreminating Autopians are concerned, i dont really think its making the durability platform. My verdict is still out, i broke my NXT virginity last Saturday, so time will tell if will go back for seconds........Maybe I'll do a simple pole and find out its current "Autopian" verdict......
 
bretfraz said:
I don't think is an issue of right and wrong. It's not that simple. Everyone seems to have their own way of determining durability, some of it more accurate and thought-out than others. What's been obvious to me is the people who are the most discriminating, most experienced and most knowledgeable are the ones (in general) who have questioned on NXT durability. Keep in mind that Meguiar's promotes NXT Tech Wax as their most durable wax.




There goes that argument again. Just dismiss everyone with an opposing point of view as non-discriminating, inexperienced and not knowledgable. Basically you are saying that because I and others have had success with NXT we must not know what we are talking about?



As for Autopia not being the yardstick, please remember that it was Autopia where Mike Phillips came to first tease us with lab samples, then roll out internet sales to members. Yeah, this info was discussed elsewhere too but it was to most of the same people. And it was Mike who flew from CA to St Louis to BradB's GTG in October to show off Lab Sample Whateveritwas. It was Autopia where Meguiar's launched their viral marketing campaign to build pre-release hype for the NXT line. No, Meguiar's wanted to build legitimacy with the online car forums and Mike is their designated point man. Nothing wrong with that; clearly Meguiar's has benefited greatly from their exposure here and elsewhere. I think minimizing the influence of Autopia on car forums everywhere is a mistake. If Autopia is not the yardstick for Meguiar's newfound interest in online forums, I don't know what is.



Keep in mind that Autopian's are not even the target market for this product. Most of the sales will likely come from people who have never, ever heard of Autopia or forums for that matter.



If you re-read my post I by no means am trying to minimize the influence of Autopia. I just think some of us tend to take ourselves just a weee bit too seriously.
 
I just think some of us tend to take ourselves just a weee bit too seriously.

Ya think ? Were sick individuals !!! Im not saying NXT isnt good, but good doesnt stop at slickness.....Some of the replies in this thread drive my curiosity...I was impressed at the slickness when i was finished after my first use of it. But im use to that slickness remaining after a couple washes....Is the "Booster Wax" a necessity to maintain original slickness?
 
Ok. Here's my take on this whole thing. Take it as you will. (these are my experiences only, YMMV)



First: NXT as a product. If it was a Carnuaba, the durability would be slightly below average. For a Polymer, it's pathetic. Now keep in mind, this isn't on an autopians car. This is on the 'average persons' automobile. Here at Autopia, we have enough QD and 'booster products' to keep our cars shiny no matter what. I can tell you that if my dad took the time to wax his 2002 F250, and in 2 weeks the product was gone, he'd be pissed. And he doesn't even know the difference between Carnuaba and Polymer. However, for those two weeks, it'll look great, and smell good. I mean really... I get better durability out of S100. That ain't right!



Second: Meguiars and Marketing and Web forums.



Whoever said that we're just a small portion, and are not indictive of the real world of car wax was waaaaaaaay off. Let's take my little demographic for example. I'm not nearly as good as the best on this site, but in my little office and world here, i'm a detailing god. Everyone at work, at home, and at the bars asks me what I use on my car. They always ask for hints, tips, and often offer to buy the beer if I come over with my PC and tool kit. My car gets compliments every day, ranging from 'Hey, you gotta stop waxing that thing, the sun glare is ruining the smoking lounge!!' to 'Hey, whered you get the car repainted.. Looks fantastic!' Regardless, When NXT first came out, I was toting it like it was the miracle cure. Giving away free samples, testing it out on peoples cars, and what not. Last week, I sent everyone home with a mission: Look at where I applied the NXT, and report back. Needless to say, the results weren't positive. So I made sure to tell everyone to hold off on the Meguiars stuff until further notice. I estimate 10-12 sales that I, yes - little old me - hold in my dear hands. I could push them wherever I want. I almost pushed them to NXT, semi-blindly, all due to a little internet forum. Luckily for all of them, I'm religious about my finish, and when I couldn't wax it for 3 weeks, and I noticed absolutely no protection, loads of water based etch marks, and absolutely, positively, no reminents of NXT, and let everyone know....



Think about that.
 
rjstaaf, I just re-read this entire thread again. You continue to imply that those among us that are not overly enthusiastic about NXT, are either not prepping correctly, or that we dont comprehend beading vs. sheeting, or that we simply wont admit the obviously superior attributes of NXT due to a group conspiracy to destroy the reputation of the Meguiar legacy.

Considering your obvious emotion over any dislike of, or even indifference to NXT and your exuberant defense of said product, Ive come to the conclusion that you are actually Barry Meguiar posting incognito.

I request....nay, demand that you now remove your mask and confess your true identity.
 
bretfraz said:
...What's been obvious to me is the people who are the most discriminating, most experienced and most knowledgeable are the ones (in general) who have questioned on NXT durability. Keep in mind that Meguiar's promotes NXT Tech Wax as their most durable wax...



I hope this was just a poor choice of words or just a poorly thought out argument on your part. I've been detailing cars for 45 years and I have had fairly good results with NXT. Perhaps you think I'm not discriminating or not knowledgeable then. I've detailed thousands of cars. That doesn't mean I know everything there is to know but I've gone through a lot of products and techniques over the years and would consider myself at least somewhat knowledgeable, discriminating and certainly experienced.



I believe I recall reading Scottwax has had good results with NXT too as well as several others you chose to either insult or ignore so that you could dis a product that you were unable to get good results with.



You want to try again? This time try to make an intelligent argument without disparaging a lot of fellow Autopians who are here to learn and share info about products and techniques.



Hey, no one here is saying you have to like NXT, Zaino or any product. I'd just ask you to stop calling those of us who are able to get good results with a product, any product that you don't happen to like, undiscriminating, inexperienced and not knowledgeable.



You are the second person I've run into here at Autopia that seem to be angry with a company who makes good products and backs them with a guarantee. You two seem to hate this company with a passion, at least that's how you come across. Do you really think we would be better off with out that company and it's products?



Lighten up. This place (Autopia) is not here so you can get into a pi$$ing contest about what you like or don't like. It's for all of us to learn and share knowledge and experience.
 
NozeBleedSpeed said:
rjstaaf, I just re-read this entire thread again. You continue to imply that those among us that are not overly enthusiastic about NXT, are either not prepping correctly, or that we dont comprehend beading vs. sheeting, or that we simply wont admit the obviously superior attributes of NXT due to a group conspiracy to destroy the reputation of the Meguiar legacy.

Considering your obvious emotion over any dislike of, or even indifference to NXT and your exuberant defense of said product, Ive come to the conclusion that you are actually Barry Meguiar posting incognito.

I request....nay, demand that you now remove your mask and confess your true identity.



I guess this is where the thread is going to start degrading into personal attacks.



Just to clarify.



I never said anything about people not knowing the difference between beeding and sheeting. Somone posted that NXT sheets after a wash. I simply pointed out that NXT Tech Wash is designed to sheet. Take it as you will



I never said anything about people not knowing how to prep. I was simply trying to figure out for my own peace of mind why we are seeing such a wide variance in success with NXT. Take it as you will.



If you want to call my posts emotional, go head I am sure nothing I say will change your mind there.
 
You guys do realize that you are fighting over a $14.00 bottle of wax, dont you? I can only imagine how you guys would act if you found out that someone uses a chenille mitt.

I dont even get that mad when I find onions on my hamburger.....
 
jfelbab said:
You are the second person I've run into here at Autopia that seem to be angry with a company who makes good products and backs them with a guarantee. You two seem to hate this company with a passion, at least that's how you come across. Do you really think we would be better off with out that company and it's products?



Lighten up. This place (Autopia) is not here so you can get into a pi$$ing contest about what you like or don't like. It's for all of us to learn and share knowledge and experience.



Dude, take it easy will you? If you'd take the time to read his other posts, you'd realize that bretfraz is an advocate of other products made by Meguiar's. I think it's YOU who needs to lighten up.



As for a company that some people hate with a passion (and call it's users an assortment of derogatory pet names), yes, there definitely is one out there...but it certainly isn't Meguiars.
 
NozeBleedSpeed said:
You guys do realize that you are fighting over a $14.00 bottle of wax, dont you? I can only imagine how you guys would act if you found out that someone uses a chenille mitt.

I dont even get that mad when I find onions on my hamburger.....



I see it as much more. I see it as the rightful study of a company, who has hired a now-highly-regarded rep, who gave us nothing other than the now famous "Lab Sample D." If Meguiar's, Mike Phillips, whatever, had been different at first, I doubt this thread would have existed.
 
BW said:
If Meguiar's, Mike Phillips, whatever, had been different at first, I doubt this thread would have existed.



Yup, pimp a product like there's no tomorrow and there will be controversy.



We see a similar situation with Zaino. Guess that's why we like to engage in our little pissing contests with that product too! We can thank the legions of Zaino Zealots for that!
 
I guess this has become some kind of "Wax Jihad" or something.

I hereby challenge any NXT user to a no holds barred, cage wax match. I'll take BW as a tag team partner.
 
jfelbab said:
I hope this was just a poor choice of words or just a poorly thought out argument on your part. I've been detailing cars for 45 years and I have had fairly good results with NXT. Perhaps you think I'm not discriminating or not knowledgeable then. I've detailed thousands of cars. That doesn't mean I know everything there is to know but I've gone through a lot of products and techniques over the years and would consider myself at least somewhat knowledgeable, discriminating and certainly experienced.



I believe I recall reading Scottwax has had good results with NXT too as well as several others you chose to either insult or ignore so that you could dis a product that you were unable to get good results with.



You want to try again? This time try to make an intelligent argument without disparaging a lot of fellow Autopians who are here to learn and share info about products and techniques.



Hey, no one here is saying you have to like NXT, Zaino or any product. I'd just ask you to stop calling those of us who are able to get good results with a product, any product that you don't happen to like, undiscriminating, inexperienced and not knowledgeable.



You are the second person I've run into here at Autopia that seem to be angry with a company who makes good products and backs them with a guarantee. You two seem to hate this company with a passion, at least that's how you come across. Do you really think we would be better off with out that company and it's products?



Lighten up. This place (Autopia) is not here so you can get into a pi$$ing contest about what you like or don't like. It's for all of us to learn and share knowledge and experience.



Bret didn't imply if you had good results with NXT your somehow inferior, he simply stated some of the most respected members of this community haven't had the results some others have had. What's wrong with that? Sounds too me like your looking for something to piss and moan about here, and you totally missed the point of Bret's post. Maybe you should take your own suggestion and lighten up.
 
I think those who have had less than what they would consider excellent results take Meguiars up on their money back guarantee. Those who like it continue to buy it. In the end, the market place will decide.
 
jfelbab said:
bretfraz said:
...What's been obvious to me is the people who are the most discriminating, most experienced and most knowledgeable are the ones (in general) who have questioned on NXT durability. Keep in mind that Meguiar's promotes NXT Tech Wax as their most durable wax...



I hope this was just a poor choice of words or just a poorly thought out argument on your part. I've been detailing cars for 45 years and I have had fairly good results with NXT. Perhaps you think I'm not discriminating or not knowledgeable then. I've detailed thousands of cars. That doesn't mean I know everything there is to know but I've gone through a lot of products and techniques over the years and would consider myself at least somewhat knowledgeable, discriminating and certainly experienced.



I believe I recall reading Scottwax has had good results with NXT too as well as several others you chose to either insult or ignore so that you could dis a product that you were unable to get good results with.



You want to try again? This time try to make an intelligent argument without disparaging a lot of fellow Autopians who are here to learn and share info about products and techniques.



Hey, no one here is saying you have to like NXT, Zaino or any product. I'd just ask you to stop calling those of us who are able to get good results with a product, any product that you don't happen to like, undiscriminating, inexperienced and not knowledgeable.



You are the second person I've run into here at Autopia that seem to be angry with a company who makes good products and backs them with a guarantee. You two seem to hate this company with a passion, at least that's how you come across. Do you really think we would be better off with out that company and it's products?



Lighten up. This place (Autopia) is not here so you can get into a pi$$ing contest about what you like or don't like. It's for all of us to learn and share knowledge and experience.



1. I guess you missed my "in general" qualifier. Funny thing is, I rewrote that sentence four times and it still didn't come out right. But I'm not gonna try again.



2. I like Meguiar's enough to purchase their products, use them regularly, and recommend them to others.



3. I've got good results from NXT. It's not comparable to the elite boutique products on the markets IMO but its a good store bought wax.



4. Lighten up? You've been a member here 6 weeks so take some of your own advice. Don't like my posts? Use the Ignore feature.
 
WOW! I'm very surprised that a lot of people are not satisfied with NXT. As for me well, I'm very satisfied. There was actualy a time this winter that I wasn't able to wash my car twice a week as I normally would. I think I even went a month of not actually applying either the wax or spray wax and the result is the same. The first time that I wash after an application it would bead like crazy. The rest of the time the water just sheets off the car. My drying time is actually cut in half because I don't use the CWB anymore.
 
I may not have had the best results with NXT, and I may have questioned a lot about the product's capabilities, but there's something that I don't think anyone can dispute: Autopia IS one of the major launch pads for the NXT product. There's no doubt about it - let's briefly look back at what's happened:



1) A new mystery product is "leaked" on Autopia, known only as "Lab Sample __" and is touted as one of the best product Meguiar's has ever introduced. "All new - nothing like it, unsurpassed durability, shine and gloss," were some of the phrases, IIRC.



2) Meguiar's (a multi-million dollar, International company) takes the time to send a factory rep to what is essentially a backyard BBQ amongst friends to further introduce this new Lab Sample. For comparison, this would be like BMW sending a prototype of the 2005 E60 M5 to my neighbor's garage sale, "just because."



3) Meguiar's becomes a sponsor of Autopia. This is a good thing, because it allows Autopia to keep running, and allows for site improvements/enhancements. However, Autopia has a relatively small immediate reach - we're definitely not a Car & Driver or Road & Track-sized community (those pubs have 700k+ monthly readers... we have 15k members ever), so why make the big investment if not to help promote products through the web and a viral campaign? Again, don't take this move as a negative - it's a great marketing strategy... it's worked for other companies in the past at other sites, so it was a very smart move by Meguiar's - capture a very minor, but very vocal community.



4) The Lab Sample is hyped on Autopia (and other forums) with regularity; eBay auctions are used to sell some samples and generate more hype, with all proceeds being donated to charity (which was very cool and classy on Meguiar's behalf). Posts are updated, press releases are generated, etc. as the auctions progress.



5) Some odd-number of cases of NXT are made available as a pre-order, and Autopian's are invited to call the customer service hotline to place an order. This was a few weeks before it was available anywhere else. Free shipping is thrown in...



6) Initial reports trickle in about how great the product looks (remember, this doesn't include durability - just initial results), and everyone's chatting up NXT... it spreads to other forums, and is "the talk of the town."



7) While waiting for my NXT to arrive, I question the similarities between NXT and #20, and all H#@! breaks loose - Meguiar's has meetings about it, revises their MSDS, I get hate mail (and loads of it), etc., etc., Meguiar's tells us that MSDS are nothing important and don't mean anything to anyone other than couriers, etc., etc.



8) I finally get my bottle of NXT and test the product. Nice product - not the most durable, but definitely not the worst product I've ever used. All in all, not bad for $14-ish...I just wish it were more durable and "hyped" a little less. Still more online arguments brew about the product, most of which culminate here at Autopia.



9) Meguiar's hosts an "Autopia" day, flies people out to the event, chauffeurs them around in limos, takes them on a mini-celebrity vacation, then holds their normal Saturday class. Key, respected members attend, and naturally have a great time. More chatter ensues as a result. (For the record, I would have loved to attend, but I was traveling on other business at the time. Mike did invite me some months ago, but scheduling conflicts prevented it)



10) More reports trickle in about the product - some great, some not-so-great. Depending on which camp you're from, the arguments are either valid or Bovine Secretion. Folks like dlw (whom I have great respect for - just look at his detailing abilities and transformations) have had less than stellar results. That's cool. Some folks like rjstaaf have had great results. That's cool, too. Some take the arguments personally, while others recognize the value of healthy debate and varied results. That's also cool. And some choose to ignore the discussions completely and focus on other topics. Again - totally cool. But to dismiss someone who questions the product's abilities as a "nut" or as "having an agenda" or as just wanting to have a "pissing match" is not cool.



...Anyhow....



It doesn't take a genius to realize that a lot of this activity has taken place to build a strong, respected online following for the product. Meguiar's aren't dummies - they realize the power of a viral campaign, and they took full advantage of it.



Disclaimer: Like I said earlier, I'm not totally impressed with the durability of the product, and I don't believe that a true LSP should have cleaners, oils and fillers, but that doesn't mean I'm a Meguiar's "hater." I simply look at things with a more critical eye than most, and this includes all aspects of a product: marketing, performance, etc... Again, don't take me to be a "hater" - just the opposite is true - I regularly recommend Meguiar's prep products (read our Wax Test report and see what I chose to use as prep products). My neighbor uses NXT on his truck after he saw me using it on a test panel. Sure, he has to re-NXT his truck every 3-5 weeks, but he enjoys it. I, on the other hand, look for a little more durability, but that's just me. /Disclaimer



So, like it, hate it or "not sure how to feel about it," NXT was indeed launched in large part on Autopia.
 
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