MANY factors contribute to paints appearance...correct?

J

jinxtvvbxc

New member
O.K. I'm a neophyte to this forum I realize, so excuse what may seem to be a pompous and confrontational tone. However, as I read and comment on a few of these threads regarding wax ect...i'm always amused by the lack of mention of the SUBSTANTIAL factors that contribute to a paints quality, ALL of which have 0 to do with wax or polish.



It's in MY humble, if not opinionated view, that CARE of the paint to begin with, followed closely by AMOUNT of applied paint, are BY FAR the greatest determining factors to a automobiles presentation. Using "Souverean" "Zymol" "P21" "Zaino" "Blitz" ect ect.. doesn't make a ***** difference if you start from a disadvantaged position.



Most certainly, you can care for you car wonderfully, spending tons of time and dollars on its appearance. In the end it will NEVER look as nice as a well taken care of ride with a bountiful glop of paint on it (applied with expertise of course!) Example: I own a 1990 Iroc-Z Convertible which has never been polished with anything but 3M Imperial glaze, 3M Hand glaze, and waxed with Zymol Concours. IT has 21,000 Original miles on it, and hasn't been driven in 4 years as of today (O.K. add a few days I guess).



EVERY single time I roll it out come summertime the neighbors go wild, they cannot understand how the car looks like it does. I honestly tell them "It has 12 coats of GM Arctic White applied to it folks, and is garaged constantly" This of course is my point, there is no substitute for layers and care, and it seems, as I read some of these threads...well MOST of these threads, these facts are rarely mentioned. Please don't talk about "showcar" shines when its silly to do so in MOST respects. MANY cars look lovely in pictures because phots are in a myriad of aspects, incredibly deceiving, its how the car "shows" that ultimately matters, and that's to a decerning eye as well...cheers!:nixweiss
 
I hear what you are saying and philosophically, you are correct. A detail job is only going to look as good as the paint job will allow. I think that concept stands to reason and is assumed and accepted without further discussion. I don't see the logic in belaboring the obvious.



What virtually all of us are trying to do is get the best results possible from the paint jobs we have. As I'm sure you know, factory paint varies greatly. Not many people out there have the money and inclination to own a garage queen and have a custom paint job applied to it simply because we don't like the factory paint. Instead what we are looking for is the best combination of products and techniques to maximize what we've got. Many times a change of product can alter the appearance more to our satisfaction.



I don't think your tone is as pompous as it is obtuse. The obvious seems to have completely escaped you. This is not a custom car forum or a professional auto painters forum. People here have cars ranging from Ferraris to old Hondas and Chevys. Some are garaged but most are driven daily. No one here is discussing various paint systems because that's not critical to us. Getting the most out of what we have is.



Sorry this is not up to your lofty standards.
 
To add to the above and a question for B.Stolz.



A car washed with nothing on it will show you the quality of the paint job and the natural gloss available. The best is ever will be (or was) is the day it was painted.



What most are discussing here is what we do from there, Getting the finish back to the best it can be and even enhancing it if possible. Even you are using three products on what must be a perfect paint job.



My question is why use anything at all if the underlying paint is perfect in the first place?



Your answer is exactly what detailing (paint enhancement) is all about. Protection and making what you have even look better.
 
B.Stolz said:
O.K. I'm a neophyte to this forum I realize, so excuse what may seem to be a pompous and confrontational tone. However, as I read and comment on a few of these threads regarding wax ect...i'm always amused by the lack of mention of the SUBSTANTIAL factors that contribute to a paints quality, ALL of which have 0 to do with wax or polish.



It's in MY humble, if not opinionated view, that CARE of the paint to begin with, followed closely by AMOUNT of applied paint, are BY FAR the greatest determining factors to a automobiles presentation. Using "Souverean" "Zymol" "P21" "Zaino" "Blitz" ect ect.. doesn't make a ***** difference if you start from a disadvantaged position.



Most certainly, you can care for you car wonderfully, spending tons of time and dollars on its appearance. In the end it will NEVER look as nice as a well taken care of ride with a bountiful glop of paint on it (applied with expertise of course!) Example: I own a 1990 Iroc-Z Convertible which has never been polished with anything but 3M Imperial glaze, 3M Hand glaze, and waxed with Zymol Concours. IT has 21,000 Original miles on it, and hasn't been driven in 4 years as of today (O.K. add a few days I guess).



EVERY single time I roll it out come summertime the neighbors go wild, they cannot understand how the car looks like it does. I honestly tell them "It has 12 coats of GM Arctic White applied to it folks, and is garaged constantly" This of course is my point, there is no substitute for layers and care, and it seems, as I read some of these threads...well MOST of these threads, these facts are rarely mentioned. Please don't talk about "showcar" shines when its silly to do so in MOST respects. MANY cars look lovely in pictures because phots are in a myriad of aspects, incredibly deceiving, its how the car "shows" that ultimately matters, and that's to a decerning eye as well...cheers!:nixweiss
Click to expand...



Any "garage queen" will look fantastic. By your own admission, your car hasn't seen the streets in 4 years, give or take a few days. It has been driven an average of 1,615.3 miles per year...most people drive that of miles in an average month. 12 coats of GM Arctic White? Hardly an original paint job!



Most of the people on these forums have acheived the look of your "garage queen" on their daily drivers, which is a testament to their skills and passion for detailing. Others have come here to gain these skills. Many a silk purse has been made from the sow's ears of neglected automotive finishes.
 
Geeze,



some folks in here are real haters I see. Well, I think many of you missed my point AGAIN, given the consistant and audacious talk of what wax is best, and or polish ect..ect..my point was simply to imply that the"obvious" was seemingly unmentioned, hence the thread.



As for the 1990 I own, its not my everyday car but that is hardly necessary to make my point (talk about obtuse?) Guys, just because I have an opinion that doesn't jibe with yours doesn't make it wrong, or at all mean spirited. I believe some of you need to get a grip on yourselves and be an individual, and not try so hard to be sycophants. Decerning views are validated as well....oh and tiger...your p21s car wouldn't look very good against that $6000.00 paint job...and trust me on that!..oops, there I go again, being cruel...what a bad guy:mad:
 
You cant honestly think that your posts arent inflammatory. You cant post threads like this and expect people not to respond in this fashion.Your very quick to point out how we miss your point, well its very clear that you missed ours.

:rolleyes:
 
bjwebster said:
You cant honestly think that your posts arent inflammatory. You cant post threads like this and expect people not to respond in this fashion.Your very quick to point out how we miss your point, well its very clear that you missed ours.

:rolleyes:
Click to expand...
I agree 100%. :rolleyes:



And Bret has the knack of really nailing the core of "hot" issues like this.



I think Nick might be onto something too......
 
Well then...if Bret says so I guess it's so...hmmmmmmmm....let's see "Inflammatory Man"...kinda sounds....wicked...yeah, nobody uses that word anymore, too bad it was a discriptive word....oh well, I guess I'll continue to razz the crowd, because I won't conform to your little club ideology...sorry!:eek:
 
I really can not understand the reasoning behind your initial statements. I have 3 concourse ready 60's Chevy muscle cars that never enter into the discussions here at Autopia. Why? Their care is not in the scope of most of our discussions. Multiply thousand dollar paint jobs and garage queens really do not reflected "true" detailing or appearance up-keeping skills. Nor should their finishes require the products we discuss here. You are not novel or unique in having a vehicle or in my case vehicles that rarely are driven. No big Deal. There are many here that just do not mention these scenerios.



I believe your statement was intended to be mean spirited for what reason I do not understand. There are many other ways to introduce oneself without stating the obvious or calling the rest of the forum stupid.

Welcome to Autopia. You may not learn anything in terms of detailing here but you may learn a little tactic by observing how people communicate here with the written word.

:nixweiss



Now that we are back to reality, what does your daily driver look like? If not pristine and close to the "garage queen" in appearance, lower the nose and learn something. No skill required to make a car that driven rarely astound a crowd. It the daily driven car that appears like a garage queen the should get the well deserved praise.:xyxthumbs
 
bjwebster said:
You cant honestly think that your posts arent inflammatory. You cant post threads like this and expect people not to respond in this fashion.Your very quick to point out how we miss your point, well its very clear that you missed ours.

:rolleyes:
Click to expand...



Indeed, well said.
 
O.K...one more time...IT'S NOT ABOUT THE CAR IN MY GARAGE FOR GOODNESS SAKE..I could've gone into the OTHER cars I own as well, but why is of course the proper question? It was to covey a point, and you guys are completely freaks to think otherwise. You want people to just come in and play by your sustained standard of etiquette? what a farce, you guys are tools if that's the case.



I believe the confrontation was started by YOU not I, but hey that's just my OPINION. Look folks, I NEVER once claimed nor asserted I was more knowledgable about anything discussed here, show me where I did please?. If you're going to state that my tone or text ASSUMED this postion I guess you're all mind reading merlins, excuse me.



Furthermore, the Z 28 guy stating that cars like this "garage queen" do not NEED the care or products discussed here???? Huh?....uhhhhhhhh yes they DO my friend, what? does my BUTLER wax and polish my car? Even my EVERYDAY cars look fabulous, that wasn't my POINT hence no mention of them. To argue over what WAX is best, or CLEANING products work best, seems in its very nature UNPRODUCTIVE. If you want to brag about how great a detailer you are, or the PROCESS you use to maximize the appearance of your auto...fine, just understand its a CAR not WAR, and like in both those example a myriad of factors go into that planning. Guys, get a grip will ya?:argue This is sad!
 
You obviously don't want to be here. Check your PMs and check your email. This kind of thing isn't acceptable on Autopia. Show some respect or find another board. Those are the only rules you are expected to 'conform' to. :angry
 
"your p21s car wouldn't look very good against that $6000.00 paint job...and trust me on that!.."



Guess I shouldn't of entered my car into a local car show last year and won 1st place for best import, huh?
 
B.Stolz emailed me and asked me nicely, so he is now
ban.gif
. I guess he didn't like Autopia. :nixweiss



You guys were awesome to be as patient with him as you were. This guy was just another great example of how Autopians don't stoop to the level of other boards. I hope B.Stolz finds a board that fits better with his unique way of expressing his "humble, if not opinionated view." :xyxthumbs
 
"I honestly tell them "It has 12 coats of GM Arctic White applied to it folks, and is garaged constantly" This of course is my point, there is no substitute for layers and care, and it seems, as I read some of these threads...well MOST of these threads, these facts are rarely mentioned. Please don't talk about "showcar" shines when its silly to do so in MOST respects."



:doh . Maybe we should start every thread with this disclaimer

"Unless you have 15 coats of hand rub lacquer or the 12 coats of GM enamel, your finish will not be "showcar" in the absolute sense but will look good" :nixweiss.



Somewhat obvious" but maybe some people (Stolz) just do not get it without disclaiming this obvious idealogy. By the way I have seen many stock paints jobs that have been massaged to ShowCar quality. These are the one that get the top dollar when sold ( market price). Re-paints are usually looked at with :confused: :confused:. If the mileage is correct and history of being garaged is true why did it need a paint job. When we buy original we also buy the flaws that were built into that production run. Of course in your case the original paint job was not up to your standard and that you wanted to be able to really be able to brag that it is a "showcar" paint job.



"It was to covey a point, and you guys are completely freaks to think otherwise. You want people to just come in and play by your sustained standard of etiquette? what a farce, you guys are tools if that's the case."

:sosad







Most certainly, you can care for you car wonderfully, spending tons of time and dollars on its appearance. In the end it will NEVER look as nice as a well taken care of ride with a bountiful glop of paint on it (applied with expertise of course!)



:shocked . I never thought of that. :doh I better call Maaco!









" ...i'm always amused by the lack of mention of the SUBSTANTIAL factors that contribute to a paints quality, ALL of which have 0 to do with wax or polish."



I guess if you do not possess a 12 coat custom paint job and your mind isn't able to differentiate between doing the best with what you brought, you need not detail your car. There maybe someone just around the corner to tell you that no matter what you do your car's paint still S#%Ks compared to my custom job.



Personally, I detail for the sense of accomplishment that I get by working the stock paint on my LS400, Z28, and Escort.

Yes Stolz, I do not touch my classics :shocked ( 2 were produced when you was just a twinkle in your parents eyes). The butler, which I do not have, does not touch them either but a professional detailer every 5 - 6 years. They just sit in a separate garage.



So in the future if you read any of my posts. Keep in mind my disclaimer above and also that your 12 coats of GM white still looks like a cratered teenage's face when placed next to my 12 coats of hand- rubbed lacquer.
 
Wax and polish are counterproductive and your car will never look better than the day it rolled out of the paint booth? Really?



I'd love to hear the explaination for the attached pic of the side of my 13-year-old car with 250,500 miles on it, taken this past Saturday:
 
Scottwax said:
Wax and polish are counterproductive and your car will never look better than the day it rolled out of the paint booth? Really?



I'd love to hear the explaination for the attached pic of the side of my 13-year-old car with 250,500 miles on it, taken this past Saturday:
Click to expand...



Me too!!!;)
 
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