How many times can you use M105 before wearing through the clear?

Maybe I am crazy, but I like to have ALL the information possible to me instead of minimal. I hate it when people withold knowledge/data from others, especially when it affects their product selection. But hey, thats life.



So, I guess this topic is pretty much answered. Zaino will continue to be a mystery mix of stuff, which works GREAT! I do find it funny that many of the guys here are SOOO picky about what brand of towel, soap mitt, toothpick, etc. they use but dont care why or how it works (or what in it makes it work). I guess by using Zaino I am one of those people too....
 
Do you mean to tell me that you know EXACTLY what is in EVERY product you currently use? Please share this with us. If you have some beef with this, you should call SAL directly....whichs you should of done in the first place. I doubt anyone on here can help you, and complaining will get you no where.



I think you should be more concerned things like how the product works, its usage instructions, product compatibility, it's limitations, what it can and can't do, cure time, etc,etc.....and this type of info is readily available about

zaino.....almost more so than any other product. There is no guessing.
 
If I told you zaino contained benzophenone, T-Butanol, and dimethal propionate.....would u buy it? I don't see what that info is really going to help you decide......
 
I don't think anyone is picking on Zaino. I use is and love it, <strong class='bbc'>but[/b], what if I had a child swallow a half a bottle of Z6 and ended up sick. What do I tell the EMS guys when they show up that he/she has ingested? I'm not a lawyer but I would think that Sal, or <strong class='bbc'>ANY[/b] mfg. would have a serious liabilty problem if that happened, and some long term illness or injury were to take place.

It's my understanding that any product that can be ingested by humans must have ingredients clearly shown on a label. Coke has them, but you can't get the exact %'s.

I'm not planning on starting my own wax company, but it would be nice to know that I'm not using a carcinogenic.
 
I can understand why some people are concerned by ingredients. As a professional, I have to worry about EPA, employee health, and other issues the average do it yourself person doesn't even consider. Take for instance tire dressings with heptane (very flammable), this chemical doesn't need an open fire to ignite. Does it make tires hine, yes, but is it safe, no. I had the same attitude until I attended Ron K. (prep excellence) school, you might have a different opinion when you meet some of the people that were effected by chemicals such as ABF and HF acids. The list goes on and on, my major point is I have to know the harms, dangers, and how to treat any problem that occurs from any chemical I use. I do not want to have an employee killed, harmed, or put on disability, just because something works. You can always find safer, and sometimes better alternatives. Ignorance, and arrogance has put many people six feet under.
 
DK: I don't know if you were directing your questions at me, but I assume so. I am not picking on Zaino products at the least! I like them. What I wonder is why are you getting so defensive about my original question about an ingredient listing.

You told me in a separate post that Black Magic tire gel contains a ton of silicone. How did you know that? Is that not important information to know?? Wouldn't it be good to know this about all car care products?

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >

<strong class='bbc'>I think you should be more concerned things like how the product works, its usage instructions, product compatibility, it's limitations, what it can and can't do, cure time, etc,etc.....and this type of info is readily available about zaino.....almost more so than any other product. There is no guessing. [/b]</blockquote>
Not necessarily true. I do know which other Zaino products Sal says are compatible with his formulations. But, since we dont know any of the basic chemical ingredients in the products, how do can we make sure other products are compatible? Of course, this is all hypothetical, but do you see my point?

Like I said, if he doesnt want to disclose his info and he is not required to, so be it. He doesn't have to. Like I said previously, I will continue to use Zaino until I find something I like better or find a reason not to use it. It just seems somewhat shady, thats all...but maybe it is an industry practice.
 
Have you even phoned sal with your concerns? You are voicing them here, but you don't even know what the outcome will be.



I still don't understand your reasoning. Even if you had a list of chemicals, would you know what they were? Do you have this list or have you tried to obtain this list for other products that you use? What was the outcome?
 
During the night I realized that I have Zaino products at work and thought I might need MSDS's for them. I figured it was worth a shot and called Sal at Zaino to request them. As many of you might guess he would not give them to me.



I decided to do a little research to determine whether I really need an MSDS for the Zaino products at work. First off the general consumer does not have a right to an MSDS. A business on the other hand is typically required to maintain MSDS’s for the products used by it’s employees. There are exceptions to this requirement however.



The Hazard Communication Standard 29 CFR exempts any consumer product or hazardous substance, as those terms are defined in the Consumer Product Safety Act (15 U.S.C. 2051 et seq.) and Federal Hazardous Substances Act (15 U.S.C. 1261 et seq.) respectively, where the employer can show that it is used in the workplace for the purpose intended by the chemical manufacturer or importer of the product, and the use results in a duration and frequency of exposure which is not greater than the range of exposures that could reasonably be experienced by consumers when used for the purpose intended.



In other words, if one uses Zaino in the workplace to occasionally clean a car then the employer is not required to keep an MSDS on this material.



At this point Sal actually called to apologize for reacting too strongly to my initial request. Apparently he has been receiving numerous requests for MSDS’s, even from competitors masquerading as consumers. Sal, if you read this, I really did appreciate the call. I told him what I had discovered and he agreed.



Anyways, in my case I do not need an MSDS.



For anyone who wants to know, Sal said that the only hazardous substances used in "some" of his products are aliphatic hydrocarbons. He further commented that he lists this on the label for those products that contain hydrocarbons.
 
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >

<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by DETAILKING [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>Have you even phoned sal with your concerns? You are voicing them here, but you don't even know what the outcome will be.

I still don't understand your reasoning. Even if you had a list of chemicals, would you know what they were? Do you have this list or have you tried to obtain this list for other products that you use? What was the outcome? [/b]</blockquote>
Nah...I haven't contacted him. I suppose that I am primarily playing the devil's advocate here. While I still like to have as much information available to me as possible (whether or not I choose to use it), based upon the response here Im going to give up. And yes, if I was given a list of chemicals, I would know what they were. It is VERY easy to find out for what I dont know off the top of my head. My understanding of physical, organic, and biochemistry are pretty advanced. Regardless, if the info isn't public domain it isnt public domain. And based upon Sunstar's response Sal does not want to share them anyways.

Oh well...so much for my bright idea to steal Sal's recipe and have a series of late night infomercials! ;)
 
I do not know what a Aliphatic hydrocarbon is... could you tell us what they are and, Most importantly, their Index of Refraction?
 
hydrocarbon is one that is not cyclic or aromatic. This has to do with the chemical structure. Examples of aromatics are benzene, cyclo hexane, styrene,etc,etc.



So the aliphatic ones, are linear or open chain hydrocarbons. Most just contain chains of carbon and hydrogen....C3H8 - n-propane, C4H10 - n-butane,etc,etc. More importantly, they are major components of every day materials...gasoline, oil based paint,etc,etc.
 
Hawley"s Condensed Chemical Dictionary, 12th Edition



aliphatic. One of the major groups of organic compounds, characterized by the straight- or branched-chain arrangement of the constituent carbon atoms.



Aliphatic hydrocarbons comprise three subgroups: (1) paraffins(alkanes), all of which are saturated and comparatively unreactive, the branched-chain types being much more suitable for gasoline than a straight chain: (2)olefins (alkenes or alkadienes),which are unsaturated and quite reactive: (3)acetylenes )alkynes), which contain a triple bond and are highly reactive. In complex stuctures, the chains may be branched or cross-linked.



See also alicyclic; amromatic;chain



Generally these are listed on MSDS's as a petroluem distillate and if listed properly, will have the CAS# for the solvent as well, example in one product the particular one is listed as follows,

Pertoluem Solvent CAS 6472-47-8 Threshold limit value (units) 100 (TLV)



Another of our product lists a solvent as

Hydrotreated Light Distillate CAS 54742-88-7

Threshold is 100 PPM (PEL) and 100 PPM (TLV)



All the MSDS's should also list the boiling point, the vapor pressure, the vapor density, the solubility in water, apperance and odor, specific gravity, percent of volatile by weight or volume and evaporation rate.



There is a section on Fire and Explosion Hazard Data, which lists Flash Point, Auto Ignition, how to extinguish etc.



The one area that I feel all must address is not so much the hazardous ingredients, as water is hazardous under the right conditions, which is why 5 gallon pails now have warnings silk screened on the sides.



There are many areas of an MSDS that may be of importance, as mentioned if a child drinks that good smelling, pretty colored product. Do you really know what it is, the possible affects it may have?



All that aside, the one area everyone should be aware of is the SARA 313 or Carcenigenic/Toxic area that is located in the last of an MSDS. California has done a great job on enforcing this particular area, others should follow suit and make sure that any product with carcenigenic or toxic components are listed plainly.



The solvent used by Zanio, Mequiars, us etc are hazardous, but only really hazardous in a 100% pure form. Yet, constant exporsure may have an detrimental effect on some humans.



There is a lot here, just have to trust that most manufacturers are not out to kill off their life's blood, at least the major ones.
 
Anyhow, you refer to a solvent in zaino that is hazardous. What solvent is that? Do you really know, or just assuming? Is it something like n-heptane which is a known carcinegin, or something like methanol which is highly flammable? Also how is it hazardous in it's pure form? You said water is hazardous under the right conditions.....so when you say hazardous...in what ways?





[Edited by Brad B. on 08-10-2001 at 01:25 PM]
 
Rapid Guide to Hazardous Chemicals in the Workplace, 4th Edition, by Richard J. Lewis.



Petroluem Distillates--CAS;8002-05-9 Health rating #3

Safety profile: Mildly toxic by inhalation and ingestion. Moderate skin and yey irritation. A flammable liquid.



Petroluem Spirits--CAS 8032-32-4 Health rating #3

Safety profile:Confirmed carcinogen. Mildly toxic by inhalation. An eye irritant. A flammable liquid.



This is how these two CAS numbered solvents are rated.



They are not the same aliphatic's,(see CAS #'s as referred to by Sal or me) but to many, would appear to be the same.



Which is why I highly suggest since you have at work access to chemical data, that you do some research.



I am not picking on any manufacturer of polishes, sealants, waxes etc.



Just attempting to open some eyes here as to how confusing it may be, that one has to go out and gather the facts if they want the real facts.



Don't assume anything, and learn how to read an MSDS.

It could save a life or prolong the life.



I still stand by our internal corporate mission statement, and that is to always provide to commercial users of our products the MSDS for the product when shipped or within 7 working days. To provide any who requests an MSDS, whether they purchased it or not, an MSDS in a timely manner.



We have nothing to hide, couldn't anyway, as all products manufacturered by AI have been through Ford, GM and DCX's world wide health and toxology departments and passed to be totally free of any toxic or carcinigenic component.



Want an MSDS from Automotive International, just email or call.



Sometimes is a real pain, but honest is honest.
 
There is lots of talk of Zaino and MSDS and that it is not easily attainable.



What about Klasse? Are the MSDS sheets for it readily available?



I agree with anyone who states that pleasant smelling aromas for car polishes or quick detailers being used on EXTERIOR surfaces is not a good thing. IMO there is too much chance that a child or person with mental impairment(i.e.Alzheimers) could easily mistake it as something to ingest. I think it would be much better to make the products have as neutral a smell as possible.

It may be true that pleasant smelling products may make someone want to use it more, but I doubt this is the case with car polishes. If the product produces a great shine, is durable, and provides the results you like than that is much more important than its aroma. I have never had anyone compliment me on how nice the exterior finish smells.



Ron writes,"We have nothing to hide, couldn't anyway, as all products manufacturered by AI have been through Ford, GM and DCX's world wide health and toxology departments and passed to be totally free of any toxic or carcinigenic component."

Does this imply Ford, GM, and DCX do not use any products that are toxic or carcinogenic? Almost every fluid in your car is toxic/and or carcinogenic.



Also how can you possibly make this statement when you know that your products do contain some petroleum distillates? If I am mistaken and your products do not contain petroleum distillates then please correct me. And I am not denying that Zaino also contains them.



Petroleum distillates are a known carcinogen and you posted that they also are,"Mildly toxic by inhalation and ingestion. Moderate skin and eye irritation."
 
Look, we live and function by the "rules" set down by our customers, their expectations.



Plain and simple, everything is hazardous if conditions are right. Just like the "water" thing, 5 to 6 inches of water in a bucket that a 2 year old can get their head into, the nose and mouth under the water, to weak to get out, and they drown.



We are told by the vehicle manufacturers, this is the limit that our research and the govermental agencies have published to be considered below the threshold of toxic, etc.



We do not set these protocols nor the limits. We respond to them.



That is the point I am attempting to make here, it is not up to AI or anyother company to set their own limits, to fail to comply with regulations and laws that are of the land.



An example I like to use in the PrepExcellence Class, is that while a product may meet the required standards, that does not mean that an indiviual may not be senstive to a particular component in the product. (ever read the thing about the airlines and peanuts?)



Don't try to pick a fight with me because I am giving documented information, that I am being honest, it is like some making a published statement that a product is "biodegradable".



Challenge one's motivations if you wish, but to challenge published facts or fail to take it up on one's self to find documented responses is not helping anyone.







[Edited by Brad on 08-10-2001 at 08:57 PM]
 
Are you saying now that this statement is a fact?

"passed to be totally free of any toxic or carcinigenic component."



Totally free means NO toxic or carcinogenic components. Nada.



If you want to change it to read, "our products pass the rigorous toxicology and carcinogenic levels and guidelines set forth by GM, DCX, etc. and government regulatory agencies" than say that instead.



Do any of your products contain petroleum distillates?



[Edited by Brad on 08-10-2001 at 08:58 PM]
 
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