black wow
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Setec Astronomy
Well-known member
Thank you for the clarification. Thanks for pointing out how easy it is to get your phone number, why didn't you simply ask the OP to call you for his answers instead of responding in this thread?
I certainly meant you no personal disrespect and I actually have great admiration for your video, thread authoring, and webmastering skills, and as I have previously posted think you got royally poked in the whole SCG/SCD debacle. I'm not sure why you felt it was necessary to bring your ethnicity into this in your father's defense, I certainly didn't. I certainly have nothing but deference for technically-educated people of which we have far too few in this country and place way too little emphasis on. (And I owe you an apology, once you mentioned Max Factor I remembered I had read that somewhere on the Black Wow site, I wouldn't have asked if I had remembered).
That being said, you may want to remember that the management has very little tolerance for "spamming". There are many long-time members here who are unable to discuss their personal business and products on the site owing to their not being sponsors. As a community, we have very little tolerance for relabelers and shills, tracing back to some incidents from before I was a member, as well as more recent ones.
Once again, I apologize if I have antagonized you or if you think I have personally attacked you, however; I generally feel I have to poke my nose in if 1) people are being denied their free speech or opinions (within the rules of the community), and 2) if I feel full disclosure is not being made about sponsorship, free product, relationships between parties, lineage, etc.
I certainly meant you no personal disrespect and I actually have great admiration for your video, thread authoring, and webmastering skills, and as I have previously posted think you got royally poked in the whole SCG/SCD debacle. I'm not sure why you felt it was necessary to bring your ethnicity into this in your father's defense, I certainly didn't. I certainly have nothing but deference for technically-educated people of which we have far too few in this country and place way too little emphasis on. (And I owe you an apology, once you mentioned Max Factor I remembered I had read that somewhere on the Black Wow site, I wouldn't have asked if I had remembered).
That being said, you may want to remember that the management has very little tolerance for "spamming". There are many long-time members here who are unable to discuss their personal business and products on the site owing to their not being sponsors. As a community, we have very little tolerance for relabelers and shills, tracing back to some incidents from before I was a member, as well as more recent ones.
Once again, I apologize if I have antagonized you or if you think I have personally attacked you, however; I generally feel I have to poke my nose in if 1) people are being denied their free speech or opinions (within the rules of the community), and 2) if I feel full disclosure is not being made about sponsorship, free product, relationships between parties, lineage, etc.
imported_Calogero
New member
Setec Astronomy said:
I think Richard was just trying to make a point about how his product was developed and by whom. I believe he mentioned who his father was to give credit and add credibility to his product.
Personally, I'd had wrote the same thing if I were in his shoes, but at the same time he shouldn't have to.
Black Wow is a solid product. He holds up. It works just as easy as it says it does and for the price you can't beat it.
Setec Astronomy
Well-known member
TrufflePig said:
Well, I guess if it's not "against" Kelly, it's against me. This really has nothing to do with trying to discredit anyone's efforts to "help others learn how to detail properly", it's about commercialism and full disclosure. I for one, am satisified and happy to now know how Black Wow was developed, by a "Nobel Prize-winning" chemist (rather than some that have been accused of "developing" their products by flipping through a relabel catalog). As far as the "spam" issue, that is between OctaneGuy and the site management.
imported_Calogero
New member
Setec Astronomy said:
No, Setec Astronomy its not against you either, that's why I wrote in general.
I know Richard has taken some slack in the past and what not and maybe some are giving him slack now, but as you, sure I'd love to know how it was made from start to finish, and there are other things I'd love to know how they're developed as well.
For instance I spoke once with the developed of Meguiars Solo system, but he couldn't give me every detail on how it was said, its just proprietary information.
Know what I mean?
Sometimes we're just not afforded the opportunity to know everything about products.
But I know what you mean about how some 'developers' are just relabellers.
And on other note, I do enjoy how we can have a civilized conversation about this and not let it get heated and take it personal. I enjoy this about some forums etc...
Richard@BlackWOW
New member
It's ok. I'm sorry too for getting a little heated. There are just a few people on the net who tend to drive me a little insane with the nature of their posts. I didn't think trying to clarify misinformation--like I was doing for your post, was something that wasn't permitted here. The links I had previously posted showed people the proper way to use BW, and it also linked to an FAQ on the product along with what other people are saying. I've since removed those links because of Kellyinkc's post.
However, I've already had my talk with DavidB after I posted the video link and I won't be doing any type of commercialization here with any of my products right now. I'm actually working to make things legit, but that's later. If anyone has any questions for me, visit me at SCD-- since my Autopia PM box is forever filling up.
However, I've already had my talk with DavidB after I posted the video link and I won't be doing any type of commercialization here with any of my products right now. I'm actually working to make things legit, but that's later. If anyone has any questions for me, visit me at SCD-- since my Autopia PM box is forever filling up.
Setec Astronomy said:
Richard@BlackWOW
New member
Uhm, what is there to disclose? I don't make it a secret that I made the product. I happened upon this thread, and tried to correct some misinformation. None of my posts said--hey Go buy Black Wow today! Go here! Or hey you need a better product, buy this!
I answered a question, like anybody else who has a passion for something.
Anyone that has asked me a question about my product, I've provided answers, by email, by phone, by text messaging, through forum posts.
Where is the conflict of interest? Have you tried my BW yet? I mean you thought it was a tire dressing. Have you even done any reading on it to learn it or understand it??
I answered a question, like anybody else who has a passion for something.
Anyone that has asked me a question about my product, I've provided answers, by email, by phone, by text messaging, through forum posts.
Where is the conflict of interest? Have you tried my BW yet? I mean you thought it was a tire dressing. Have you even done any reading on it to learn it or understand it??
kellyinkc said:
imported_Calogero
New member
Guys/girls, let's just try and remember that Richard is only trying to help.
He is clarifying information about his product.
Heck, I know that if I posted questions about certain products and were able to get answers from the developer himself/herself, I'd jump at every chance.
That's my view on all this.
Anything else you can PM me.
He is clarifying information about his product.
Heck, I know that if I posted questions about certain products and were able to get answers from the developer himself/herself, I'd jump at every chance.
That's my view on all this.
Anything else you can PM me.
Setec Astronomy
Well-known member
I think everyone needs to just :chill: a little. When I first joined here, one of the big phrases from the long-time members was "process is > product", meaning that it was the techniques rather than the actual products that made the difference (or, another way of saying it is if your technique is good, you can get excellent results from any product).
While there may be some "disruptive technology" at play in detailing products, for the most part it still comes down to technique. However, invariably, we see new product after new product become the "buzz" here, everybody jumps on it, buys it...and then moves on to the next new buzz, which maybe is pretty much the same as the last one.
We seem to have moved away from the process emphasis and onto the product. But guess what? If your technique stinks and you put on too much LSP, it doesn't matter if it's #16 or KSG or Z-CS, it's still going to haze on you and be a pain to remove. Sometimes I think we need to curb our enthusiasm a bit and be a bit more critical of new products, because although for some of us collecting products is a hobby, there are plenty of members here struggling to get their car to look great in their eyes and who get deluded into thinking it's all about their product choice rather then developing the skillsets needed.
I hope Black Wow is that "disruptive product", and I look forward to trying it some day when I have room on my shelves after I use up last month's buzz product, and last year's, and the year before that. :chuckle:
Kudo's to OctaneGuy for his continuing Open Garages where he actually teaches people PROCESS. I'm sure he has much less to gain from it than does Meguiar's with their similar meetings. Some of you may not know that he has been organizing detail days in the Mini community for a long time, back when he had NOTHING to gain from it other than the satisfaction of helping people to make their cars look better.
While there may be some "disruptive technology" at play in detailing products, for the most part it still comes down to technique. However, invariably, we see new product after new product become the "buzz" here, everybody jumps on it, buys it...and then moves on to the next new buzz, which maybe is pretty much the same as the last one.
We seem to have moved away from the process emphasis and onto the product. But guess what? If your technique stinks and you put on too much LSP, it doesn't matter if it's #16 or KSG or Z-CS, it's still going to haze on you and be a pain to remove. Sometimes I think we need to curb our enthusiasm a bit and be a bit more critical of new products, because although for some of us collecting products is a hobby, there are plenty of members here struggling to get their car to look great in their eyes and who get deluded into thinking it's all about their product choice rather then developing the skillsets needed.
I hope Black Wow is that "disruptive product", and I look forward to trying it some day when I have room on my shelves after I use up last month's buzz product, and last year's, and the year before that. :chuckle:
Kudo's to OctaneGuy for his continuing Open Garages where he actually teaches people PROCESS. I'm sure he has much less to gain from it than does Meguiar's with their similar meetings. Some of you may not know that he has been organizing detail days in the Mini community for a long time, back when he had NOTHING to gain from it other than the satisfaction of helping people to make their cars look better.
imported_sonyexec
New member
octane looks like you have a solid product, today is the first I have heard of it and would like to see that video...where can I find it?? I understand it violated the delicate balance of this BB and was removed from it LOL. I find it hilarious but it aint my board.
So if you post the video it's commercialization, but if you fwd the video to another and they post the same it's not? Are we going to have to start "fuzzing" out product names when we post how to videos like they do on TV? "You didn't pay to have your product logo shown on our show so we're fuzzing it out." LOL
Anywho octane you seem like a stand up guy, don't waste your time rsvp'g to these assonine posts about disclosure, ect. I'm up by Brea maybe I'll get a chance to swing by your place to see the latest.
So if you post the video it's commercialization, but if you fwd the video to another and they post the same it's not? Are we going to have to start "fuzzing" out product names when we post how to videos like they do on TV? "You didn't pay to have your product logo shown on our show so we're fuzzing it out." LOL
Anywho octane you seem like a stand up guy, don't waste your time rsvp'g to these assonine posts about disclosure, ect. I'm up by Brea maybe I'll get a chance to swing by your place to see the latest.
Setec Astronomy
Well-known member
sonyexec said:
Well, I guess we could have no rules, no moderation, and then every thread would be about how product xyz is the best--wait! It's the worst! Where you could have no idea what a product was really like without buying it, which would kind of make the whole idea of a discussion board not worth doing.
It's hard enough as it is to weed through personal preferences, bias, and brand/personality loyalty, without the "spamming" bleeding in. No it's not perfect here, but it's better than the alternative.
We have come to an understanding. Still spam IMHO.
http://autopia.org/forum/davids-blog/90368-spam-spam-spam.html
BTW, TP what are the Provincial taxes for mailorder shipping costs?
Best of luck to the business. I just got back from Victoria, BC.( In Canada)
I loved it! Want to go back.
http://autopia.org/forum/davids-blog/90368-spam-spam-spam.html
BTW, TP what are the Provincial taxes for mailorder shipping costs?
Best of luck to the business. I just got back from Victoria, BC.( In Canada)
I loved it! Want to go back.
imported_Jakerooni
New member
Wow....... Um I don't know if I should even respond to this. I'm pretty sure after reading the responses in this thread that voicing opinions on this board will violate some sort of rule. But..... I just have to.
For the sake of the internets and free information I say if we can be so lucky on here as to acutally speak with a developer of a product more power to us. Seems to me by reading between the lines and such on here unless your a contributing sponsor you're not allowed to talk about your products. Which is total bull***t! Open forums like this should not be about the all mighty dollar. If this site is paid for by sponsor then by all means mention them and link them. If someone else develops something by all means let them talk about it... All they want to. Obviously octane guy hasn't gone the full sponsor route but he also dosen't sell BW on this site. You have to link to his other site(s) to order it up. As it should be. Keeping someone down because they don't give monatery amounts to this site is about as lame a thing as I've ever heard.
Now as for the moderating of this site goes... I seriously think people get a whacked out idea of what a moderator is supposed to do. I've been a moderator of a car site I fequent for about 5 years. I have more post on that site I would say than most people on here have combined. Meaning I've been around it a long time. The site owner can set the rules obviously as he/she sees fit. The mods are only there to moderate those rules. The main reason for moderators on a site are to HELP members. Not hinder them. to politely remind fequent rule breakers of the rules. NOT come down like some sort of iron fist on a power trip over the first minor infraction. If a noob comes on it's the Mods that the noobs look for to get their feet wet on the site. Your NOT here to be prison wardens. so quit acting like it. That's a extreamly quick way to loose members. It was said that this place is better than the alternative? Are we refering to a competing site or not having a warm open community to come to to talk and share ideas? If this site lost track of open forums and went the way of who can pay the most for sponsorship dollars then it's a lost site anyways.
Sorry for ruffling any feathers but it just erks the crap out of me when people forget WHY message boards exsist. Even if you don't agree with an opinion of another member they have every right to have that opinion. Never forget your not better than anyone else. To think so is a fools folly.
For the sake of the internets and free information I say if we can be so lucky on here as to acutally speak with a developer of a product more power to us. Seems to me by reading between the lines and such on here unless your a contributing sponsor you're not allowed to talk about your products. Which is total bull***t! Open forums like this should not be about the all mighty dollar. If this site is paid for by sponsor then by all means mention them and link them. If someone else develops something by all means let them talk about it... All they want to. Obviously octane guy hasn't gone the full sponsor route but he also dosen't sell BW on this site. You have to link to his other site(s) to order it up. As it should be. Keeping someone down because they don't give monatery amounts to this site is about as lame a thing as I've ever heard.
Now as for the moderating of this site goes... I seriously think people get a whacked out idea of what a moderator is supposed to do. I've been a moderator of a car site I fequent for about 5 years. I have more post on that site I would say than most people on here have combined. Meaning I've been around it a long time. The site owner can set the rules obviously as he/she sees fit. The mods are only there to moderate those rules. The main reason for moderators on a site are to HELP members. Not hinder them. to politely remind fequent rule breakers of the rules. NOT come down like some sort of iron fist on a power trip over the first minor infraction. If a noob comes on it's the Mods that the noobs look for to get their feet wet on the site. Your NOT here to be prison wardens. so quit acting like it. That's a extreamly quick way to loose members. It was said that this place is better than the alternative? Are we refering to a competing site or not having a warm open community to come to to talk and share ideas? If this site lost track of open forums and went the way of who can pay the most for sponsorship dollars then it's a lost site anyways.
Sorry for ruffling any feathers but it just erks the crap out of me when people forget WHY message boards exsist. Even if you don't agree with an opinion of another member they have every right to have that opinion. Never forget your not better than anyone else. To think so is a fools folly.
imported_Calogero
New member
Jakerooni said:
WOW!!!
PERFECTLY SAID!!!
I couldn't agree more. Some people just take it wayyyyyyyyy to far when one voice's their opinion.
Thank you for that.
zingyginger
New member
Kudos to OctaneGuy for standing up for himself!
It's nice to hear from product developers who have spent time testing their products and can share how to best use them. If given a choice to apply something blindly or get pointers on how to use it from someone who knows it best, I'd rather have the latter option. Sometimes I initially dismissed an item as not worth my time only because I didn't apply it correctly (Had I not read about repeatedly applying Poorboy's BnB for more gloss, I would have thrown it out). There are also some products like paint decontamination systems that are a little trickier to apply and having information from an authority is extremely helpful.
Don't get me wrong, I would bristle if I felt someone was pushing their latest and greatest on me. However, I also feel that having different commercial interests present, as long as it's out in the open, lends credibility to this board. Noteworthy product lines should be able to withstand competition and criticism - this is how new and better ones get developed. If people here were only allowed to discuss Klasse and nothing else (happen to love it but am not a zealot) , I think eventually members would stop reading and responding to posts.
Just my two cents.
It's nice to hear from product developers who have spent time testing their products and can share how to best use them. If given a choice to apply something blindly or get pointers on how to use it from someone who knows it best, I'd rather have the latter option. Sometimes I initially dismissed an item as not worth my time only because I didn't apply it correctly (Had I not read about repeatedly applying Poorboy's BnB for more gloss, I would have thrown it out). There are also some products like paint decontamination systems that are a little trickier to apply and having information from an authority is extremely helpful.
Don't get me wrong, I would bristle if I felt someone was pushing their latest and greatest on me. However, I also feel that having different commercial interests present, as long as it's out in the open, lends credibility to this board. Noteworthy product lines should be able to withstand competition and criticism - this is how new and better ones get developed. If people here were only allowed to discuss Klasse and nothing else (happen to love it but am not a zealot) , I think eventually members would stop reading and responding to posts.
Just my two cents.
imported_Calogero
New member
zingyginger said:
Yes. I certainly agree.
I said it above, if I had questions about a certain product and had the chance to speak to the developer, I'd be all over that because then I'd know for sure my questions were being answered properly and with the correct information.
Kudos to Richard for speaking up and helping us all out.
I totally disagree that his posting were anything close to Spam. He's helping us all out and making detailing easier for us with great product inventions such as Black Wow.
i.e I no longer have to tape all that black plastic trim on my Mini because of Black Wow. you know how much time that saves?
Thank You.
All the best
Well, for my two cent's worth...
I purchased Black Wow about a month ago and could not have been more pleased. Wish I had before and after pics to show because the difference was phenomenal. Night and day.
As many of you may be aware, the E36 BMW has textured front and rear bumper trim and it had becomed stained. Quite honestly, I'm not sure what from, because Zaino shouldn't be staining it. Anyway...
I pulled all the trim out, tried to clean it as best I could. Wash with Dawn, wipe down with diluted ISO, sprayed on some Simple Green, tried a little APC. Nothing touched it. Still should have tried a magic eraser, vinegar or WD-40, but I was getting tired of trying.
So I reached for the Black Wow and Richard is correct. A little goes a long way. It shined right up and stayed that way. Looked brand new. No, I don't think it even looked that good when new.
Matter of fact, my wife walked into the kitchen where I had all the finished trim. All she could say was "Wow!!!". I told her that was exactly right. And if you wife is like mine, there isn't much in my detailing arsenal that really causes her to raise her eyebrows and take note. But this one did.
All that and it's even lasted through several of these Oklahoma downpours, stood up through at least one car wash since being applied a month ago and it's still beading water.
Downsides? It's slipperly, so you don't want to use it on any surface that you might need to stand on. Other than that, I can't really think of anything.
Plus, I believe Richard is a stand out guy and great to talk to.
I purchased Black Wow about a month ago and could not have been more pleased. Wish I had before and after pics to show because the difference was phenomenal. Night and day.
As many of you may be aware, the E36 BMW has textured front and rear bumper trim and it had becomed stained. Quite honestly, I'm not sure what from, because Zaino shouldn't be staining it. Anyway...
I pulled all the trim out, tried to clean it as best I could. Wash with Dawn, wipe down with diluted ISO, sprayed on some Simple Green, tried a little APC. Nothing touched it. Still should have tried a magic eraser, vinegar or WD-40, but I was getting tired of trying.
So I reached for the Black Wow and Richard is correct. A little goes a long way. It shined right up and stayed that way. Looked brand new. No, I don't think it even looked that good when new.
Matter of fact, my wife walked into the kitchen where I had all the finished trim. All she could say was "Wow!!!". I told her that was exactly right. And if you wife is like mine, there isn't much in my detailing arsenal that really causes her to raise her eyebrows and take note. But this one did.
All that and it's even lasted through several of these Oklahoma downpours, stood up through at least one car wash since being applied a month ago and it's still beading water.
Downsides? It's slipperly, so you don't want to use it on any surface that you might need to stand on. Other than that, I can't really think of anything.
Plus, I believe Richard is a stand out guy and great to talk to.
:hm wow...
After reading all the non-sense I wonder who are the ones spamming? Obviously it takes two to try to sidetrack a "Product Discussion" thread. Someone obviously liked the product he bought and USED, and so he posted up for discussion.. and put yourself in someone's shoes for once.. if you developed a product and excited about it ( i sure hope you are excited about your own products) then it is common sense that you would simply say thanks and at the same time provide more helpful information for the end user. That's what I call sustaining customer relationships.
It's really funny how people don't even test the product themselves before opening their big mouth. If you don't want to add to your collection of "buzz" then borrow someone's to try or just simply keep your post to yourself. We're all on a forum full of USEFUL information and most importantly, a friendly community of detailers no? I mean.. unless Autopia is not a "friendly" community then that's a different story. So why do people talk down on someone's idea/invention/product?? Do you have something to proof? All you're doing is hiding behind a computer screen typing away and hoping that someone doesn't find you.
also, do you really think Meguiar's, Prima, or Zaino is really going to disclose everything about their products? How its made? if that's the case, these companies will probably have gone bankrupted by now. want to know one common thing? TOP SECRET. yup. believe it or not.. its TOP SECRET! and even if you know how he made it, good luck locating those ingredients also.
I rarely post here, but I browse through here often... reading through the whole thread really got me going. There are 5 pages and 3 of that involves two people diverting the original topic of this thread.
I personally have tested the pre-production version (hand mixed) of the gel and it works. and it still WOWs till this day. I'm happy for Richard that BW have been such a great success.
Richard, time to bust out the :bat Keep it up!
After reading all the non-sense I wonder who are the ones spamming? Obviously it takes two to try to sidetrack a "Product Discussion" thread. Someone obviously liked the product he bought and USED, and so he posted up for discussion.. and put yourself in someone's shoes for once.. if you developed a product and excited about it ( i sure hope you are excited about your own products) then it is common sense that you would simply say thanks and at the same time provide more helpful information for the end user. That's what I call sustaining customer relationships.
It's really funny how people don't even test the product themselves before opening their big mouth. If you don't want to add to your collection of "buzz" then borrow someone's to try or just simply keep your post to yourself. We're all on a forum full of USEFUL information and most importantly, a friendly community of detailers no? I mean.. unless Autopia is not a "friendly" community then that's a different story. So why do people talk down on someone's idea/invention/product?? Do you have something to proof? All you're doing is hiding behind a computer screen typing away and hoping that someone doesn't find you.
also, do you really think Meguiar's, Prima, or Zaino is really going to disclose everything about their products? How its made? if that's the case, these companies will probably have gone bankrupted by now. want to know one common thing? TOP SECRET. yup. believe it or not.. its TOP SECRET! and even if you know how he made it, good luck locating those ingredients also.
I rarely post here, but I browse through here often... reading through the whole thread really got me going. There are 5 pages and 3 of that involves two people diverting the original topic of this thread.
I personally have tested the pre-production version (hand mixed) of the gel and it works. and it still WOWs till this day. I'm happy for Richard that BW have been such a great success.
Richard, time to bust out the :bat Keep it up!
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