Will melting Carnaubas Blow you up!?

E

eShine

New member
There were a few people concerned in this thread,



http://autopia.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=49008&highlight=p16s



That the heat of melting Carnauba waxes will "Blow you up". Being unsure myself I wanted to insure the 115Degree melting point of Carnauba waxes was not so close to the flash point where a fire can occur. Here is my test...





My Poor Santa Shot Glass is about to get hotter than the north Pole! LOL



P16Sheattest001.jpg




At 129 degrees the Carnauba is a liquid,

P16Sheattest003.jpg




At 300+ degrees the Carnauba starts to boil and steam

P16Sheattest006.jpg


P16Sheattest007.jpg




386 and still going, almost 4 times the heat required to melt.





P16Sheattest010.jpg


P16Sheattest011.jpg




399 was as high as I can get it, the Carnauba was boiling and evaporating but not blackening or smoking (What you see is steam in the camera flash), I was not able to get it to flare. This experiment was done for my own interest, I will continue to use P16S. I can not speak for other brands but Megs #16 and P21S melted together seems safe to me. Proceed at your own safety!

P16Sheattest012.jpg
 
Wow, nice test. How is the stuff when it melted back down? Does it seem to be okay? or is it really messed up now?
 
Id actually be curious to see how the extreme heat compromised the wax. Maybe you should try some of it on a test panel for comparison?
 
Te be honest, the wax looks just as it did. Its not discolored in any way and cooled to the same consistency. It also feels the same. I dont know if the performance has changed.
 
The safest way to melt wax would be using an electric hot plate, outside using a double boiler. Electric because there is no flame, outside in case it did flare and double boiler to ensure the mixture below could get no hotter than 212 F.



I recently brewed a mixture of bees wax and about 15% carnuba and turpentine according to an old furniture wax recipe in a reference book. All waxes disolved in the turpentine at that termperature in about 1/2 hour. When cooled there was no layering or segregation into constituent components.



The wood (antique rosewood veineer on an armoire) looks really good now!
 
To me the most telling part of this experiment is the fact that the wax melted at 129 deg F. That demonstrates why I get poor performance with carnuba wax in the Texas summer heat. It just will not hold up in that heat.
 
txz28 said:
To me the most telling part of this experiment is the fact that the wax melted at 129 deg F. That demonstrates why I get poor performance with carnuba wax in the Texas summer heat. It just will not hold up in that heat.
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It actaully melts completely at 115 degrees. I just happened to take the pic at 129.
 
eShine said:
It actaully melts completely at 115 degrees. I just happened to take the pic at 129.
Click to expand...



Even worse. Yep, polymer sealants only in the warm months for me. Warm being from March to early November.
 
To me the most telling part of this experiment is the fact that the wax melted at 129 deg F. That demonstrates why I get poor performance with carnuba wax in the Texas summer heat. It just will not hold up in that heat.
Click to expand...



Isn't that an argument also, for more carnauba? As I understand it, pure Carnauba has a melting point of 180.
 
jvcn said:
Isn't that an argument also, for more carnauba? As I understand it, pure Carnauba has a melting point of 180.
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Interesting...



As I understand it (read please correct me if I am wrong), carnuba waxes are not 100% carnuba wax. They are carnuba wax with some solvents added to make them a paste. From Autopia-Carcare.com:
P21S Carnauba Wax is a hand-poured blend of German waxes, proprietary ingredients and pure Brazilian Carnauba wax.
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The 100% carnuba claim in some waxes is that only carnuba wax is used. As I understand it, 100% carnuba is a solid and cannot be spread on a car at normal temperatures.



This lead to two questions.

1. What would happen if the experiment were repeated at after the wax were left for a period for the solvent to evaporate? This could also be tried by reheating the solidified remains of the first experiment. All of the solvent should be vaporized. :confused:



2. What would be the affect of melting 100% carnuba and spreading it on the car? :confused: I am not sure of the mechanics of doing this, but I would think that it probably does not leave a uniform coat. Buffing it off would also be a pain.



I would love to hear any comments. This is one of the best experiments I have seen. :up
 
txz28 said:
To me the most telling part of this experiment is the fact that the wax melted at 129 deg F. That demonstrates why I get poor performance with carnuba wax in the Texas summer heat. It just will not hold up in that heat.
Click to expand...



I use carnaubas on my black car all summer in the so-called Texas heat (I'm originally from Phoenix, so it ain't hot until it hits 120!) and I have no problems.
 
Reading these two threads has really helped with the winter blues:xyxthumbs :xyxthumbs



Most excellent.:up :bounce
 
txz28 said:
To me the most telling part of this experiment is the fact that the wax melted at 129 deg F. That demonstrates why I get poor performance with carnuba wax in the Texas summer heat. It just will not hold up in that heat.
Click to expand...



Melting point is not a good way to determine durability. You could say that sealants freeze (turn to solid) at a hypothetical temperature of zero degrees and therefore turn from solid to liquid at temperatures higher zero; in this case, sealants have an even lower melting temperature than that of wax, which turn from solid to liquid at 129F. What determines durability is what's left after the carrier solvents evaporate.
 
raymond_ho2002 said:
Melting point is not a good way to determine durability. You could say that sealants freeze (turn to solid) at a hypothetical temperature of zero degrees and therefore turn from solid to liquid at temperatures higher zero; in this case, sealants have an even lower melting temperature than that of wax, which turn from solid to liquid at 129F.
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Sealants typically rely on chemical bonding in addition the the mechanical bonding fo waxes. Typically the are polymeric compounds that rely on additional chemical reactions. I would say characterizing a sealant by melting point is not an appropriate method.





What determines durability is what's left after the carrier solvents evaporate.
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I agree the more I thought about it for a wax. Which is why I would proposed question #1.



But, this is all idle speculation from a slow day at work. What really matters is your personally experience and opinion.





Originally posted by Scottwax

I use carnaubas on my black car all summer in the so-called Texas heat (I'm originally from Phoenix, so it ain't hot until it hits 120!) and I have no problems.
Click to expand...



What can I say but I have had different experience.
 
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