Wax protects better than sealant ...

dalmore

dalmore

Chicks Dig Comb Overs
I know it's supposed to be the other way around but that's not the results i'm seeing. I thought maybe i'd share my observations with DC. I'm interested in whether you've seen similar results or whether you can explain it to me.

My dark green metallic Toyota Tacoma gets clear coat etching in a matter of minutes from bird bombs. It is a base model with no insulation under the hood so the hood gets very hot. I think that is a contributing factor. I keep BRS and MF in the truck at all times but still... :dunno

I tried several sealants and none seemed to help as each time I washed the truck, I'd find more etching. So I tried Natty's about 8 weeks ago. I've washed it three or four times since then, No new etching! :bow

Maybe the wax neutralizes the acid in the bird poop? Maybe I've just been lucky? Maybe Natty's in a miracle protector?
 
There's no question in my mind that "some" carnauba waxes last longer and protect better than "many" synthetic waxes.
 
I know this is kind of a strange thought but are you sure that the etching is in the paint and not just in the sealant? You could try applying a paint cleaner such as AIO to a small area of the truck to remove the coats of sealant and see if the etching is still there.

I'm not sure about this but I think that waxes usually give a thicker coat than sealants so maybe it's just that the bird droppings didn't soak in all the way to the paint's surface when you used the wax.
 
hmm. maybe carnubas give better PROTECTION but dont last as long, but selants give less but last for longer. protection doesnt neccesarily mean durabilty does it?


O/T: i havent used nattys but when ever someone mentions it i picture peanut butter. is that wha it smells like? :D
 
Same here on sealants. I usually get terrible bird bombs and tree sap, and even if it was just sitting there for a few minutes, I find some etching. #16 and Natty's seem to prevent it, maybe they hold up longer :dunno
After cleaning the bs I always follow up with AIO to see if the etching can be removed using a chemical cleaner.. no luck so far.

joyride: I used to think of the same thing! Mine's unscented, but I think the new batch smells like vanilla :huh
 
Here's my two cents .02 .....

I would first break paste waxes into two catagories..

1) those that you wipe on and then wipe off .....usually you will see shorter durability

2) those that you wipe on, set up ...(flash/haze) and then wipe off ...these will last longer ....usually fully cured in an hour or so ..but look better the next day.

Then there are sealants....

Some flash quickly and some flash up to an hour in time...
Sealants usually need to remain dry on the finish for 24-72 hours to fully cure and gain their utmost protection..

Conclusion: Some paste waxes will last and protect longer since there is a quicker cure time and thus more forgiveable if your prep method has some flaws ...Sealants on the other hand can get tricky if the prep and set up time are not optimum for that sealants and are much more finicky with weather for set up and application....

I know this sounds simplified but I find using a paste wax is just less complicated than sealants, and the durability may be a little shorter, but we are all detailing fanatics ...so who really is trying to get that extra week out of a product anyhow:lmfao
 
Interesting thoughts here.

CARGUY said:
I know this is kind of a strange thought but are you sure that the etching is in the paint and not just in the sealant? <snip>

I'm not sure about this but I think that waxes usually give a thicker coat than sealants so maybe it's just that the bird droppings didn't soak in all the way to the paint's surface when you used the wax.
Click to expand...

Definitely not something that cleans off with AIO, PPP, PwC, UPC or Speedclay ... Yea, I originally tried wax on that thought - and because the sealants weren't stopping the etching!!

joyriide1113 said:
hmm. maybe carnubas give better PROTECTION but dont last as long, but selants give less but last for longer. protection doesnt neccesarily mean durabilty does it?
Click to expand...
Thanks for making that distinction for me. I did mean PROTECTION and not durability. I've found that I am the limiting factor with durability with just about about every product I try.
:lmfao

Oh and my Natty's is either vanilla or coconut scented. I'll have to ask the wife - she's the one with the calibrated nose. ;)

milky said:
Same here on sealants. I usually get terrible bird bombs and tree sap, and even if it was just sitting there for a few minutes, I find some etching.
Click to expand...

Hey - I'm not alone in this world!!
 
Poorboy said:
Here's my two cents .02 .....

I would first break paste waxes into two catagories..

1) those that you wipe on and then wipe off .....usually you will see shorter durability

2) those that you wipe on, set up ...(flash/haze) and then wipe off ...these will last longer ....usually fully cured in an hour or so ..but look better the next day.

Then there are sealants....

Some flash quickly and some flash up to an hour in time...
Sealants usually need to remain dry on the finish for 24-72 hours to fully cure and gain their utmost protection..

Conclusion: Some paste waxes will last and protect longer since there is a quicker cure time and thus more forgiveable if your prep method has some flaws ...Sealants on the other hand can get tricky if the prep and set up time are not optimum for that sealants and are much more finicky with weather for set up and application....

I know this sounds simplified but I find using a paste wax is just less complicated than sealants, and the durability may be a little shorter, but we are all detailing fanatics ...so who really is trying to get that extra week out of a product anyhow:lmfao
Click to expand...

Ok, that's something I had not considered - I just assumed that since I had great looks on my sealants they were curing properly. I'm wondering if that is not the case after all ... hmm... Anyway - it will be wax on the Tacoma for a while. I probably won't get bored with the 6 or 7 waxes I have on hand until June or maybe late May ... Ok, definitely not before Mother's Day. ;)
 
Poorboy said:
Here's my two cents .02 .....

I would first break paste waxes into two catagories..

1) those that you wipe on and then wipe off .....usually you will see shorter durability

2) those that you wipe on, set up ...(flash/haze) and then wipe off ...these will last longer ....usually fully cured in an hour or so ..but look better the next day.

Then there are sealants....

Some flash quickly and some flash up to an hour in time...
Sealants usually need to remain dry on the finish for 24-72 hours to fully cure and gain their utmost protection..

Conclusion: Some paste waxes will last and protect longer since there is a quicker cure time and thus more forgiveable if your prep method has some flaws ...Sealants on the other hand can get tricky if the prep and set up time are not optimum for that sealants and are much more finicky with weather for set up and application....

I know this sounds simplified but I find using a paste wax is just less complicated than sealants, and the durability may be a little shorter, but we are all detailing fanatics ...so who really is trying to get that extra week out of a product anyhow:lmfao
Click to expand...

Good explanation, thanks
 
There is also the fact that protection is more than just whether or not bird crap marks your paint. UV protection and durability in winter conditions and extreme heat are other factors to consider. The acid in bird bombs is going to eat through anything no matter what. Your paint is considerably harder than any wax or sealant you are applying. It may be that the birds dumping on the car right now just haven't been eating the same stuff as the ones where the crap etches faster. Too many variables to take into consideration to say that the wax is protecting better. You would have to use the same bird crap on a waxed section, a sealant section, and a bare section to know which was doing more protecting. Interesting observation though. Any chance they are different birds doing the work on the car?
 
Jngrbrdman said:
There is also the fact that protection is more than just whether or not bird crap marks your paint. UV protection and durability in winter conditions and extreme heat are other factors to consider. The acid in bird bombs is going to eat through anything no matter what. Your paint is considerably harder than any wax or sealant you are applying. It may be that the birds dumping on the car right now just haven't been eating the same stuff as the ones where the crap etches faster. Too many variables to take into consideration to say that the wax is protecting better. You would have to use the same bird crap on a waxed section, a sealant section, and a bare section to know which was doing more protecting. Interesting observation though. Any chance they are different birds doing the work on the car?
Click to expand...


These are all good points too...A micro-thin layer of wax or sealant is only a short term barrier between the bird dropping and paint...if you get to it quickly and it hasn't been in the sun baking in, you have a good chance of getting it off without staining. In the hot summer sun, your chances are very slim.
Due to the lack water in a bird bomb and the high acid content it is always best to remove it asap and after removing the dropping, I would reapply your wax or sealant to that area as it probably has lost a lot of its protection.
 
Jngrbrdman,

Good points on the UV protection and such. And you are right, my observations don't necessarily prove wax protects better even against bird bombs. However, the fact remains no etching (yet) with Nattys - etching with the sealants I've tried.

I'm sure it's the same little sparrows as always perching in the trees in my front yard. They are some sh!tt!ng fools! Once they bombed the truck in the time in took to put the wash mitt down and grab the hose for rinsing! Fortunately, little sparrows have little bombs and there for little etchs.
 
on one of u're posts regarding wax/sealant durabily/protection u mentions that waxes need an hour to set and cure while most selaants need 24-72 hours. since normally i put an extra coat of sealant after 24 hours does that mean that the extra coat of wax can be placewd after just one hour. i know main idea regarduing sealants being layerable and waxes just making the coat thicker and giving a more uniform coverage.

so can it be done?

didnt wanna make a thread for soemthing soo quick and didnt wanan post in the thread for fear of hijacking

Poorboy said:
Here's my two cents .02 .....

I would first break paste waxes into two catagories..

1) those that you wipe on and then wipe off .....usually you will see shorter durability

2) those that you wipe on, set up ...(flash/haze) and then wipe off ...these will last longer ....usually fully cured in an hour or so ..but look better the next day.

Then there are sealants....

Some flash quickly and some flash up to an hour in time...
Sealants usually need to remain dry on the finish for 24-72 hours to fully cure and gain their utmost protection..

Conclusion: Some paste waxes will last and protect longer since there is a quicker cure time and thus more forgiveable if your prep method has some flaws ...Sealants on the other hand can get tricky if the prep and set up time are not optimum for that sealants and are much more finicky with weather for set up and application....

I know this sounds simplified but I find using a paste wax is just less complicated than sealants, and the durability may be a little shorter, but we are all detailing fanatics ...so who really is trying to get that extra week out of a product anyhow:lmfao
Click to expand...
 
This is good info :) plus I don't know if you noticed this dalmore, but toyota paint is really soft. Maybe it's just my paint but there are some areas that mar even with ssr1 via foam app.
 
Boss_429 said:
There's no question in my mind that "some" carnauba waxes last longer and protect better than "many" synthetic waxes.
Click to expand...

I totally agree !!

I've had excellent results in durability with Natty wax.
 
milky said:
This is good info :) plus I don't know if you noticed this dalmore, but toyota paint is really soft. Maybe it's just my paint but there are some areas that mar even with ssr1 via foam app.
Click to expand...

Try SSR1 on a finishing pad ....

Joyride....Yes I would definitely put two coats of a paste on about an hour apart to add to the density and better coverage of the wax.
 
milky said:
This is good info :) plus I don't know if you noticed this dalmore, but toyota paint is really soft. Maybe it's just my paint but there are some areas that mar even with ssr1 via foam app.
Click to expand...

Sho 'nuff. And Toyota paint is thin too. Easily chipped. Makes me wonder why I keep buying Tacoma after Tacoma.....oh wait...it's the fact that I never have any sort of trouble out of them!! :) I do agree about the soft paint, especially on my new one and my mom's new Camry.
 
joyriide1113 said:
will the second coat of nattys after an hour give some better eye candy? :drool
Click to expand...
To my eyes it does :drool natty's is addicting!

Jared, that's for sure :) the build quality makes up for the crappy paint :D :rofl
 
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