The 3D Message.... is it sinking in???

Dan

Dan

Well-known member
One of my favorite things about 3D is the keep it simple approach. But I keep seeing posts with new guys and their plans to use like 17 different compounds, polishes, glazes, etc... AND that's before the 3 coats of whatever LSP they are planning to use. Its making me :doh::hairpull



Is AutoGeek and their sales machine winning?
 
I think there's more to it than that. Marketing can only do so much. Some go for marketing, but others go for real world testing and experiences, and want proof of stuff rather than just forum talk and hype. The keep it simple approach of 3D is really true for some that use it, but not for others, so I think that makes some hesitant to jump on it over other, more proven products. Plus, it's still relatively new and seems to have a smaller niche than other brands. I rarely see it discussed on other forums besides this one.



I do agree that having many steps is overkill for 99% of the cars out there, and they only ask from what they have read here and on other forums. I myself took that approach initially many years back, I bought a disgusting amount of products because I thought I needed them and others here used them to great results. Of course with experience I narrowed it all down to a few products while the rest just sat there for years and most are still sitting there on my shelves. I always say, you never know until you try it yourself, and don't just take anyone's word for it.



Another thing I think makes most hesitant is the mixed reviews, and that goes for any brand. Money is tight these days, people just want to be absolutely sure this one thing will do the job the best for the price it's available for, so mixed reviews or more negative than positive reviews hurt that also. I haven't tallied the reviews of 3D products here, but I would estimate that there's more that have had issues than those that have not.



Customer service and brand employees also lend to the overall product and I firmly believe impact whether or not someone will want to buy something or not, again, this goes for any industry, and I think we all do it to a certain extent. Think how many times you have said you won't eat somewhere because the service was bad? Or buy a certain brand of car because there's so many problems with it? We all do it everyday, we want to know what others experienced with it before spending money on it ourselves, and only unbiased reviews are taken for the most part.
 
There is still a lot of people with disposable income to spend on hobbies despite the overall economic situation. For many it is hobby and it something they can do themselves and get results. Maybe it is more fun than chasing some white ball around a large area. The internet in general lets them know all about it from car brand forums to detailing specific ones.
 
I always wonder if people just can't accept that this stuff is basically pretty simple and that overcomplication serves little purpose for most folks. I've been responding to a few of those "I plan to use a zillion products on my daily driver..." posts and I suspect they're afraid that they're gonna miss out on having things turn out OK if they "skip a few steps". Even if those steps are basically pointless when it comes right down to it.



They're missing the point when it comes to "how to keep a vehicle looking good in the real world".



Eh, same ol' same ol'....seeking perfection in a [boat]-load of products seems easier than figuring out how to avoid marring the paint. Keeping a vehicle basically marring-free will go farther towards having it look OK than all the products in the world. Figuring out how to do that isn't as fun as making plans and shopping for products.



And when somebody says their never-corrected vehicle doesn't have any marring...well...I won't say they're lying, or wrong, but I bet that a full Autopian correction to that "already perfect finish" would be a real eye-opener, no matter *what* LSP was slapped on afterwards.
 
Accumulator said:
And when somebody says their never-corrected vehicle doesn't have any marring...well...I won't say they're lying, or wrong, but I bet that a full Autopian correction to that "already perfect finish" would be a real eye-opener, no matter *what* LSP was slapped on afterwards.
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Yeah, I get a chuckle of out that as well. Probably as much as the whole glaze thing after a three stage polish.
 
Hmm....





I'll start by saying this. When I first heard the message "Detailing made simple" I was excited to see and learn what it meant.



For me seeing how much I have learned and spent over the years, I was happy to possibly see a company truly trying to keep the cost down and the process simple for the newbs and pros alike.

But as time has gone on I have become more and more disappointed in the reality of detailing made simple. The truth is 3D / HD has as many products, pads, other chemicals as many other large vendors. So detailing made simple? Not in my opinion. You still need multiple pads, polishes for different situations or conditions.

Truth be told you could use nothing but 3D products. But I think many will admit that there are other products from other vendors that work better in certain situations or conditions.

That's not saying 3D products aren't good. Because in my opinion HD Polish is one of the best polishes out and now the first one I reach for.



So, while "Detailing made simple" is a great concept. I don't feel like it is truly a reality yet. But this is only my opinion.
 
Dan said:
One of my favorite things about 3D is the keep it simple approach. But I keep seeing posts with new guys and their plans to use like 17 different compounds, polishes, glazes, etc... AND that's before the 3 coats of whatever LSP they are planning to use. Its making me :doh::hairpull



Is AutoGeek and their sales machine winning?
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That's why they are the largest retailer of auto detailing supplies.
 
As has been pointed out many, many times now, 3D's primary line of business is professionals and detail shops doing high volume work. For that customer base, the idea behind "Detailing Made Simple" is really no different than any other vendor that caters to them. "Simple" merely refers to the fact that 3D has a comprehensive product line such that one could, if they were so inclined, stay within one set of products to accomplish the vast majority of jobs they will encounter. Much like Meguiar's and their Mirror Glaze, Detailer, etc. lines.



For high end detailers and enthusiasts however, while it is still important to identify and eliminate redundant steps, it isn't always realistic to rely on volume-based products for everything. Sometimes a specialty product or process will be required for a specific concern or situation.



Simple is good, but oversimplification can also be limiting.
 
Funny and interesting thread. I like it!



Yes, Charlie is mostly correct.....3D has been catering to the high volume, mobile and car wash crowd for many, many years. But, they are very interested and listening to the high end (especially people on this forum) and trying to make more "enthusiast" type products as well. So, in that respect, you *might* find just a little bit of redundancy. The big plan for 3D is to actually lauch a whole entire HD Car Care line of products that are specialty based which will be quite different from their 3D line up. From what I've heard so far, it's actually going to be quite exciting to be a part of!



Now going back to the "Detailing Made Simple" and the whole high volume market.....3D is actually quite a bit scaled down in offerings then their competitors like Auto Magic, Ardex, Meguiars, PRO, Carbrite and a few others. Have you ever gone on these people's websites and noticed how many cleaners, dressings & compounds/polishes they offer? It makes your head spin. I wish I had 3D back when I had my volume shop as it would be filled with their line instead of what I thought was "simple" back in the day.
 
Its like Mike Phillips is fond of saying "find something you like and use it often". Words of wisdom. I might use a lot of different polishes because finishes can be so different but in the end I'm almost always now sealing with either Opti-Seal or using Opti-Coat. Rest of my LSPs are mostly just sitting now.
 
Having just visited my uncle's shop in Ohio, this thread should be read..by him! I looked around and saw SO MANY varieties of the same thing. I told my nephew, who runs the shop, that he could do the same work (actually better) with half of what was in there. Problem? My uncle things that ONR and other like products are all "crap" and scratch cars. He's the ol' "You must use 100 gallons of water" to get it right.



Slowly, people are learning and changing.



This might not be popular, but I'm still surprised in CA. at least, that many companies are selling detail trailers with water tanks and pressure washers. I have not used one in over a year. I get local detailers asking me for demos on water(less) products all the time, but they are still skeptical even after I show them.



The other day..new customer..4 nice cars. Boxter was missing the "B" on the back trunk. Pressure washer from previous detailer tore it off and cracked the r on the other end. This car is kept in a garage and kept very clean. ONR out of a bucket is probably too much for washing- :) Spray and wipe.



Soap box getting carried away so I'll stop.
 
I think RZJZ pretty much nailed it.



Mixed reviews, inconsistent customer service (one of their employees trying to play a person for a fool regarding a faulty polisher), and an overbearing presence on this message board where 3D/HD products are ALWAYS the best hurt sales. Every product being the best is not even possible as no specific chemical company has a 100% winner with every one of their products. All have some hits and misses.



Their HD Polish is great, imo.
 
WCD said:
Having just visited my uncle's shop in Ohio, this thread should be read..by him! I looked around and saw SO MANY varieties of the same thing. I told my nephew, who runs the shop, that he could do the same work (actually better) with half of what was in there. Problem? My uncle things that ONR and other like products are all "crap" and scratch cars. He's the ol' "You must use 100 gallons of water" to get it right. Slowly, people are learning and changing.



This might not be popular, but I'm still surprised in CA. at least, that many companies are selling detail trailers with water tanks and pressure washers. I have not used one in over a year. I get local detailers asking me for demos on water(less) products all the time, but they are still skeptical even after I show them.



The other day..new customer..4 nice cars. Boxter was missing the "B" on the back trunk. Pressure washer from previous detailer tore it off and cracked the r on the other end. This car is kept in a garage and kept very clean. ONR out of a bucket is probably too much for washing- :) Spray and wipe.



Soap box getting carried away so I'll stop.
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I agree with your uncle to an extent. If you actually own a real shop ONR will never replace the wand of a pressure washer. The wetbay in almost any shop is a vital role in all detailing. It is a time saver and a money maker! There are reasons why shop owners invest serious money into a pressure washer! Someone who can work a wetbay is with all the money! :thumb:
 
Barry Theal said:
..If you actually own a real shop ONR will never replace the wand of a pressure washer...
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Couldn't disagree more. The only areas of a car, IMO, that are easier & faster to clean with water as opposed to rinseless are wheels and engines, maybe really bad door jambs as well. When it comes to washing, claying and body prep in general rinseless is more efficient. Where you lose out with pressure washing, besides the waste of water, is the dry times. I can rinseless wash an entire car in the time it took me to just dry (squeege, blow dry and towel off) that same car.
 
ONR is good for vehicles that are already in good shape, I'm sure trying to ONR a vehicle that hasn't been washed in a long time would lead to more work then necessary!

While I don't have a pressure washer, I can say that seeing Barry's in action made me a believer in having a quality p-washer, it's been some time since we knocked out my Focus and she is still shining....tires still look brand spanking new after being hit with his p-washer.



Being a Meg's fan, I really do like 3D's concept of keeping detailing simple. while some things haven't floored me and yes there have been issues with products, as an armature detailer I've been able to get the products to work to my liking. I haven't had an issue with bad customer service, actually they have been nothing short of awesome when it came to my issues and If I need something, their 3D supplier will come to me! Some places local would throw your items in a box and mail it to an address right down the street from them, not 3D of MANHEIM!



To me I feel it's as good as you make it!
 
MichaelM said:
Couldn't disagree more. The only areas of a car, IMO, that are easier & faster to clean with water as opposed to rinseless are wheels and engines, maybe really bad door jambs as well. When it comes to washing, claying and body prep in general rinseless is more efficient. Where you lose out with pressure washing, besides the waste of water, is the dry times. I can rinseless wash an entire car in the time it took me to just dry (squeege, blow dry and towel off) that same car.
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Depends on the service you're offering or what you're dealing with. For extreme tar removal from rockers/etc. you will be far more efficient with a wet wash; same goes for many other "full decontamination" jobs -- can't use IronX without a thorough wet rinse afterward, nor is VG's ABC compatible with rinseless/waterless washing.



For maintenance services or those vehicles that don't need the full decon treatment though, no question rinseless/waterless is superior from an efficiency perspective.
 
I can agree with what your saying to an extent MichaelM. Im not doing just basic washes. Maybe we would have to look at it as two serperate catigories. Basic wash packages to reconditioning. Maybe I can also be stuck in my old ways. I just feel as if A heated pressure washer does a better job cleaning then ONR. Everytime I use a rinseless wash. The paint just doesn't feel as clean as it should.
 
Mush-Mouth said:
Not sure what your message has to do with detailing made simple, but you and a few others sure seem to go out of your ways to bash 3D whenever possible. From my observation, 3D has done nothing but try to help people, help this forum and even given their stuff away. But people love to crawl out from under their rock just to add their stupid comments. Wonder why HD polish is such a great product? Probably because they listened to people here and noticed that their Uno wasn't finishing as good as it could so they invented a product to help people with this. What other company is going that? You can get your magnifying glass out and find negative things on every company if you feel the need to hate on them so much.
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Not sure what your problem is but you sure go out of your way to bash people that have issues with 3D's products. You're posts are just as bad, but they come off like a fanboy who can't stand to see 3D get bashed. Why are you so vested in defending 3D?



I'm sure the 3D customers would like to be able to post their issues or complaints and have the 3D team respond appropriately without having people tag along on the "3D sucks bandwagon" OR hear from the "3D rocks, why would you complain after all they've done for you" crowd.
 
I agree with Mush. There are quite a few folks around here that wander around systemically poking jabs at 3D at every opportunity they get. This thread was about a message of keep it simple, but it turned into a hate fest. If you don't like the products, get some others. If you find something that works better, lets us know. The crap that's going on is getting really old. As much as I hate leg humping, this is way worse.
 
Wow, I didn't realize they got the Speed for free. That really shows lack of class. Maybe I'm different when I get free products and I hate them, I offer constructive criticism via private channels and/or say thanks for the free product. Otherwise I always try to point out the positive attributes. No wonder I keep getting free stuff from various vendors to try.



That said, RZJZA80 has been a lot more positive lately, so I don't want to lump him in completely to the above.
 
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