I`ve got a 17 year old car that`s not worth the amount of money I spent to modify it. I recently noticed rust underneath the strut tower brace and I`m looking for a way to properly fix this. There are a couple of other small areas that could use some preventative maintenance, as well. I`ve seen products online that you spray on the rust that turns it black, but my engine bay is really clean, so that`s not an option. Do I just grind this down with a Dremel, then apply touch up paint? I want to make sure it doesn`t come back. If necessary, I`ll go to the body shop, but I don`t know how much money they`d charge me, even though it seems like a minor job. The driver side looks worse than the passenger, but I want to prevent the passenger side from getting worse. Please let me know what you think.
Repairing and repainting small amounts of rust in engine bay
- Thread starter jwyfk
- Start date
Migue
New member
You could:
Clean threads with a wire brush to remove some if not all the rust from them and then the base around the studs you can hand sand(if using a dremel be careful as to not over do it nor damage the threads) with 80-120 grit to knock the rust out and if that works(if it doesn`t,try a heavier grit like #40) then increase grit to 220/400/600(you can go gradual or you can just try going straight to 400 or 600 since it`s under the hood and we`re not looking at a flawless job/result here) to prep for your primer/touch up. It`s not going to blend in all professionally,especially since it looks like you have flakes/pearl in that paint but at least it`ll look more presentable.
Prep is key so make sure that before you apply your touch up(maybe even look into a primer that can help prevent rust before you apply touch up), everything has been thoroughly wiped down with a wax and grease remover and wear nitrile gloves to prevent your skin oils touching that area. This should help provide a semi-permanent or more durable solution and buy you time. I wouldn`t use heavy grit paper on the areas that are just chipped without rust, i would spot sand those gently with 600 or finer to promote bonding of the touch up. Save the aggressive stuff for the rust and try not to sand the paint off everything in that area, keep it controlled to the true problem sections only which according to your picture, are the immediate areas surrounding the studs only.
Clean threads with a wire brush to remove some if not all the rust from them and then the base around the studs you can hand sand(if using a dremel be careful as to not over do it nor damage the threads) with 80-120 grit to knock the rust out and if that works(if it doesn`t,try a heavier grit like #40) then increase grit to 220/400/600(you can go gradual or you can just try going straight to 400 or 600 since it`s under the hood and we`re not looking at a flawless job/result here) to prep for your primer/touch up. It`s not going to blend in all professionally,especially since it looks like you have flakes/pearl in that paint but at least it`ll look more presentable.
Prep is key so make sure that before you apply your touch up(maybe even look into a primer that can help prevent rust before you apply touch up), everything has been thoroughly wiped down with a wax and grease remover and wear nitrile gloves to prevent your skin oils touching that area. This should help provide a semi-permanent or more durable solution and buy you time. I wouldn`t use heavy grit paper on the areas that are just chipped without rust, i would spot sand those gently with 600 or finer to promote bonding of the touch up. Save the aggressive stuff for the rust and try not to sand the paint off everything in that area, keep it controlled to the true problem sections only which according to your picture, are the immediate areas surrounding the studs only.
XxBoostinxX
New member
Before getting aggressive.... I would try some of Locktite`s Naval Jelly (http://www.lowes.com/pd/LOCTITE-16-..._clickID=38afa413-9888-47ef-b2c8-36df8d306658). It is cheap and it works well.
Stokdgs
dansautodetailing.com
Great advise above !!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Lastly, try to determine where the moisture that caused the rust is coming from - the top and/or from underneath..
That way you can be sure to get all the rust out and it won`t come back..
I forgot about all those naval jellies that were so popular in the 80`s on ... They did work well too..
At the paint shop we used to rub a 3M acid based liquid product on all bare, sanded, metals that kept them from rusting while waiting to get primed, painted, etc..
It would be considered an extra step to do this, but it is worth it to keep the metal perfectly rust free before you start the primer and paint process..
On all aluminum metal we used a zinc-chromate yellow primer that was made for aluminum and that always worked great..
Dan F
Lastly, try to determine where the moisture that caused the rust is coming from - the top and/or from underneath..
That way you can be sure to get all the rust out and it won`t come back..
I forgot about all those naval jellies that were so popular in the 80`s on ... They did work well too..
At the paint shop we used to rub a 3M acid based liquid product on all bare, sanded, metals that kept them from rusting while waiting to get primed, painted, etc..
It would be considered an extra step to do this, but it is worth it to keep the metal perfectly rust free before you start the primer and paint process..
On all aluminum metal we used a zinc-chromate yellow primer that was made for aluminum and that always worked great..
Dan F
CrispyGP2001
New member
Agree the key to the fix is prep. I have used Corroseal Primer on this kind of a repair. It is a rust converter type product that is also a primer. Their website explains it better than I can, but it goes on by brush. It is white when applied and turns black on the rusty parts. It dries clear on non rust part (the painted bits). Wait 24 hrs and then paint over the primer same as normal. Nice thing is even brushed on leaves nice finish (you can of course spray over for even better finish).
Migue
New member
Cool thanks for the info and confirmation that it works. I am actually in the process of doing what I can to remove/stop some minor rust on my beater car....but it`s at the edge where the roof meets the windshield gasket,thankfully there`s a bit of a gap that allows me to get in there a bit. I`m just giving it a vinegar treatment(applying precise drops to affected area every few hrs.)for now to loosen up the rust before I get in there with a brush and sand paper and then I was planning on using the corroseal ,just wasn`t sure if it was worth it .
Great replies, thank you! I was leaning towards brushing and sanding, then some touch up painting, but Corroseal sounds like a great product. There are so many rust converter products out there. Is this considered the best? Should I brush and lightly sand, then apply Corroseal or just skip the sanding?
Stokdgs, as you mentioned, I`m concerned that it might be coming from underneath, but I didn`t see anything that jumped out at me when I looked. All I could see was factory coating.
Stokdgs, as you mentioned, I`m concerned that it might be coming from underneath, but I didn`t see anything that jumped out at me when I looked. All I could see was factory coating.
CrispyGP2001
New member
The sanding will yeild a smoother finish. The thicker the rust the more bumpy the surface. If you get it all off then the Corroseal will act like a normal primer (no colour change). There is a limit on how far the Corroseal can penetrate. If it doesn`t convert it, will come off just like paint does, if just put it over a rust spot. Their website is a good source for more info.
Thanks man, I appreciate the help and recommendation. I called Corroseal today to see if it would damage surrounding paint and was told that it wouldn`t. They offered to send me a small sample. One more question, would you tape off the threads or treat them, as well?
CrispyGP2001
New member
I would not treat the threads. The Corroseal will add thickness to the threads making them hard to re-assemble and likely come off on re-assembly. After it is assembled could use it to "seal" the exposed bolt. I would just hit the threads with a small wire brush and WD40. If you really want to get fancey Loews has plastic/rubber caps you put over the exposed threads, thereby sealing them.
Accumulator
Well-known member
I`m currently doing this kind of work on the Crown Vic`s undercarriage and I`ve done it before on numerous vehicles. Few approaches have worked long-term, *no* approaches have always worked 100% every single time (but some do work almost every time and I do mean long-term).
Hope the CorroSeal works, never tried it. Make sure it gets everywhere it needs to get.
Q: If you treat with CorroSeal, what needs to be done after that? Will it do much if left untopped? IME if you convert rust and then leave it like that the rust comes back. The rust extends beyond what you can see/treat topically and that can cause future issues.
Q: Does this area show? Do you want to end up with metallic blue paint there or is a satin-black finish OK?
Q: Can you get to both sides?
Q: Can you disassemble it, get the threaded parts out?
(I`d just about bet my life that the rust is on both sides of that and is creeping through the gaps/seams around the threaded bits. You need to treat the rust in areas you can`t really get to directly in order to to treat the rust then seal it up with the right stuff.)
IMO you need to get something between the various parts involved, something that`ll seep into the gaps/seams and get to everywhere that`s corroding and neutralize/arrest/seal the rust- those "oblong pieces that the threaded bits stick up through" that`re outlined with rust are a clue that the whole area is rusting on both sides. Then you need to seal the whole area (extending out a ways from where you can see the rust) with something that`ll keep the residual rust from spreading (something like, but better than, POR15). Yeah, there *will* be residual rust unless you can disassemble/strip back a few inches to bare metal/work from there.
Potential big problem- if that area flexes any then whatever product bridges the seams will probably crack, opening a new gap where new rust can start/old rust can spread.
IME Rust Converters seldom work well for repairs like this (good for other jobs though). I do much better when I treat the rust with an acid-based product that leaves a Zinc coating behind (current fave: RustBullet Metal Blast) and then prime with KBS RustSeal (not POR15, and not RustBullet either although that`s worked OK too in some cases but not ones like this). And then use a creeping/seeping rust preventing product to further keep moisture out.
If the area doesn`t show I`d go about it differently (and probably more effectively) with stuff that`s not paint-friendly (the "satin-black product look" approach).
I just don`t see conventional "abrade/treat/prime/paint" methods working long term for this one, *GOTTA* get the right product on all the corrosion and then seal it up from air/moisture because you won`t get it *all*.
So if that were mine I would:
-figure out how to get to both sides of the area in question
-treat it with Metal Blast (and it`ll take a long dwell time, not just minutes- saturate paper towel figure out a way to hold that in place)
-Prime with numerous coats of RustSeal, again on both sides/everywhere and going beyond the obviously rusted area
-Topcoat with touchup paint (and then let it dry for a while)
-Rustproof with something that`ll creep into the gaps/etc. (something good, not WD40- check out ACF-50, that`s what they use for this on riveted aircraft panels or the black version of Eastwood`s Frame Coater stuff) to further slow down a return of the rust. If that stuff showed I`d live with it (better than rust IMO).
Speaking of "if that were mine", this isn`t all that different from some stuff on the Crown Vic (e.g., front stabilizer bar mounts). But in my case "satin black" is an OK look so I have it much easier. IF I had that *exact* problem and wanted to really fix it, I`d have the struts out to do the work. Yeah...I know..but that`s what I`d do.
Sorry this is just a [crappy] poorly presented rambling response..reads that way to me but it`s a tricky thing to convey (and a tricky thing to do successfully!). Also sorry for the "buy these different products you`ve never heard of" aspect of it..I have a ton of Rust Remediation/Prevention products that have *not* worked well for me and I`m not trying to waste anybody`s time/money on something where success is always iffy at best :0
Hope the CorroSeal works, never tried it. Make sure it gets everywhere it needs to get.
Q: If you treat with CorroSeal, what needs to be done after that? Will it do much if left untopped? IME if you convert rust and then leave it like that the rust comes back. The rust extends beyond what you can see/treat topically and that can cause future issues.
Q: Does this area show? Do you want to end up with metallic blue paint there or is a satin-black finish OK?
Q: Can you get to both sides?
Q: Can you disassemble it, get the threaded parts out?
(I`d just about bet my life that the rust is on both sides of that and is creeping through the gaps/seams around the threaded bits. You need to treat the rust in areas you can`t really get to directly in order to to treat the rust then seal it up with the right stuff.)
IMO you need to get something between the various parts involved, something that`ll seep into the gaps/seams and get to everywhere that`s corroding and neutralize/arrest/seal the rust- those "oblong pieces that the threaded bits stick up through" that`re outlined with rust are a clue that the whole area is rusting on both sides. Then you need to seal the whole area (extending out a ways from where you can see the rust) with something that`ll keep the residual rust from spreading (something like, but better than, POR15). Yeah, there *will* be residual rust unless you can disassemble/strip back a few inches to bare metal/work from there.
Potential big problem- if that area flexes any then whatever product bridges the seams will probably crack, opening a new gap where new rust can start/old rust can spread.
IME Rust Converters seldom work well for repairs like this (good for other jobs though). I do much better when I treat the rust with an acid-based product that leaves a Zinc coating behind (current fave: RustBullet Metal Blast) and then prime with KBS RustSeal (not POR15, and not RustBullet either although that`s worked OK too in some cases but not ones like this). And then use a creeping/seeping rust preventing product to further keep moisture out.
If the area doesn`t show I`d go about it differently (and probably more effectively) with stuff that`s not paint-friendly (the "satin-black product look" approach).
I just don`t see conventional "abrade/treat/prime/paint" methods working long term for this one, *GOTTA* get the right product on all the corrosion and then seal it up from air/moisture because you won`t get it *all*.
So if that were mine I would:
-figure out how to get to both sides of the area in question
-treat it with Metal Blast (and it`ll take a long dwell time, not just minutes- saturate paper towel figure out a way to hold that in place)
-Prime with numerous coats of RustSeal, again on both sides/everywhere and going beyond the obviously rusted area
-Topcoat with touchup paint (and then let it dry for a while)
-Rustproof with something that`ll creep into the gaps/etc. (something good, not WD40- check out ACF-50, that`s what they use for this on riveted aircraft panels or the black version of Eastwood`s Frame Coater stuff) to further slow down a return of the rust. If that stuff showed I`d live with it (better than rust IMO).
Speaking of "if that were mine", this isn`t all that different from some stuff on the Crown Vic (e.g., front stabilizer bar mounts). But in my case "satin black" is an OK look so I have it much easier. IF I had that *exact* problem and wanted to really fix it, I`d have the struts out to do the work. Yeah...I know..but that`s what I`d do.
Sorry this is just a [crappy] poorly presented rambling response..reads that way to me but it`s a tricky thing to convey (and a tricky thing to do successfully!). Also sorry for the "buy these different products you`ve never heard of" aspect of it..I have a ton of Rust Remediation/Prevention products that have *not* worked well for me and I`m not trying to waste anybody`s time/money on something where success is always iffy at best :0
Accumulator
Well-known member
Oh, for the threads...I`d neutralize the rust on them first.
Then probably treat with the Eastwood BHDAR..that`ll leave a "black painted threads look" but you can clean it off later with solvent if you need to and then reapply. Or try to *lightly* paint them with the "Galvanized steel color" KBS Rust Seal. Or treat them with something like Amsoil`s Heavy Duty Metal Preserver or the ACR-50 (those will need touched up now and then and might attract/retain a littel dirt). Haven`t decided what I`m gonna use...probably the BHDAR since I don`t mind black threads and it`ll stay tidy.
Then probably treat with the Eastwood BHDAR..that`ll leave a "black painted threads look" but you can clean it off later with solvent if you need to and then reapply. Or try to *lightly* paint them with the "Galvanized steel color" KBS Rust Seal. Or treat them with something like Amsoil`s Heavy Duty Metal Preserver or the ACR-50 (those will need touched up now and then and might attract/retain a littel dirt). Haven`t decided what I`m gonna use...probably the BHDAR since I don`t mind black threads and it`ll stay tidy.
That`s what I was thinking. It might add too much thickness and I`d have to get a tap to remove the stuff. It`s not a big deal, so I`ll just leave it.
I was feeling pretty good about my little project until I read your post. From the very beginning, I was concerned that this was something that could be coming from underneath. If I don`t stop it now, it could spread to the point where I`d need someone to do some welding. I posted this on a car forum, and the only response was "I believe alot of people would love to have that little rust. That is just minimal surface rust, so just lightly clean it up with a wire brush and then put some rust converter on it to seal the area." At this point, it might be a good idea to talk to a body shop. If it`s just on the surface, I`ll do it myself, but if the undercoating needs to be removed to repair a rusty area underneath, I don`t have the garage space to handle a project like that.
By the way, here is a picture of the passenger side. In both pictures, the square area surrounding the studs has some paint missing, because the metal plate attached to the strut tower brace scraped it away. All that will be hidden, but I still want it painted blue in the end. Look in the background and you can see some rust in the seam near the strut bolt.
Stokdgs
dansautodetailing.com
Jwyfk -
Well, hopefully you are ok underneath, but it would always be good to look under there just to be sure...
If the idea is to get rid of it forever there, then it may be a little more work than just cleaning it up and moving on..
But certainly, that approach would work fine - we just don`t know how long it would last..
What you must absolutely do to insure that your bare metal parts don`t rust up again, is get them all treated with an acid based liquid that will seal up the metal, so that microscopic rust wont start in on them again before you prime, seal, and paint it..
And even then know that Primer does not prevent rust from starting over underneath.. It is not a sealer, it is a primer...
Have you noticed the top side being wet all the time from rain, etc.. ??
Like anything else, it is always good to know the root cause of the problem if possible, so you can take steps to prevent that from happening again if that is also possible..
Good Luck !
Dan F
EXPDetailing
New member
There`s a bearing_plate that sits between the strut tower brace and the strut itself. Maybe, you could replace those, the struts and address things with sandpaper and a sealant.
Accumulator
Well-known member
jwyfk- Before I forget it again...note that many Rust Converters don`t *really* leave a "nicely primed surface that any paint will stick to". They say that, but it doesn`t always work out that way (again, not slamming any particular product).
I`d *absolutely* get underneath and spray some Eastwood stuff under there to keep it from coming back even worse (as in, rust-out). Can`t say whether I`d use their BHDAR or their Frame Coater stuff, but I`d sure do *something* from that side after addressing the top part.
I`d also do the same to the gaps around the plates, which I`m guessing don`t show.
I`d be all about not letting this "minor surface rust" turn into a complete weld-in-new-steel rust problem.
So...[repeat previous product recommendations and] give some more thought to whether you could live with some satin-black sealer (the BHDAR) if it`s a choice between that and ongoing rust concerns. The way that bearing plate (thanks, EXPDetailing...the term was eluding me) is always gonna move about a little makes me think that just painting it won`t work any better for you than it did for the factory`s work.
I`d *absolutely* get underneath and spray some Eastwood stuff under there to keep it from coming back even worse (as in, rust-out). Can`t say whether I`d use their BHDAR or their Frame Coater stuff, but I`d sure do *something* from that side after addressing the top part.
I`d also do the same to the gaps around the plates, which I`m guessing don`t show.
I`d be all about not letting this "minor surface rust" turn into a complete weld-in-new-steel rust problem.
So...[repeat previous product recommendations and] give some more thought to whether you could live with some satin-black sealer (the BHDAR) if it`s a choice between that and ongoing rust concerns. The way that bearing plate (thanks, EXPDetailing...the term was eluding me) is always gonna move about a little makes me think that just painting it won`t work any better for you than it did for the factory`s work.
Thanks Dan, I`m not going to cut any corners on this. I`ve got too much time and money invested to let it rust in some hidden area. I paid a local guy a lot of money to do engine work and fabrication. I paid him cash any time he wanted money and he never finished the car. After 3 years, I spent over $3000 in legal fees and it took an additional year or so to get him to finish. During the time it was at his shop, there was a flood. I stopped down there and every other customer`s car was up on the lift or concrete blocks, except for mine. I think he was hoping it would be ruined, so he wouldn`t have to work on it anymore. He lied about being able to do fabrication and I think that`s why the car sat for so long. His garage was elevated, so not much water came in there. There were some Porsches and other race cars that were ruined in a trailer next to the shop. I saw the line of mud from the flood only went as high as the sidewall of my tires and didn`t touch the rim, so I`m lucky. I don`t know if the humidity in the shop, or splashing from the clean-up could have caused this, but it`s possible. He did put $2600 worth of scratches on my car, but the magistrate only gave me $400. I called the magistrates office and was told there`s no way to find out how she came to this judgement. Maybe it`s because the car is 17 years old, I don`t know. I appealed and will go back to court next month.
Other than that, I don`t know. I live in the northeast and drove the car in the winter. I also wash my engine bay, and it`s possible that water got trapped underneath the strut tower brace plate.
So, you`re saying that the studs are just a plate that`s underneath and goes through those oval holes? I hope no cutting is involved up top, if that`s the case. The struts are good. Why would I replace them?
Here is a picture of the OEM strut tower brace. (Not my picture)
Accumulator
Well-known member
jwyfk- IMO your first order of business is to get a good look-see on the underside to figure out what you`re really dealing with.
How big/tough of a job is it to take the struts off the car? Some are stupid-simple, others are big deal-hard. If you could get everything out of the way so you`re just dealing with the panel and the holes in it/the plates/the rest individually it`d be a lot easier to get a good repair. Otherwise, the holes/slots/etc. that are the groundfloor of the rust problem are all filled up with the threaded bits (are they studs? bolts? I know *nothing* about this car..) to where you can`t really get in there to do a proper repair. Not that a "proper" repair is always what you have to do to solve the problem
If nothing else, this thread has prompted me to go about my Crown Vic the right way...sigh, more $ for products. Nobody else cares about my undercarriage, but I do and I`d rather not do it again in the foreseeable future.
Hey, something else I`m gonna forget if I don`t post it now- if/when you soak the rusty area with some Rust Killing Product via the "wet a paper towel with Product and keep it pressed against the rust somehow for a long time"- method, I`d use *VIVA* paper towels. Yeah, I know that specifying the brand of paper towel sounds nutty, but seriously...They`re very "cloth-like" compared to regular paper towels and while that makes them a little harder to satuate with Product, it also keeps them from disintegrating so much and IME they really do work considerably better for stuff like this.
How big/tough of a job is it to take the struts off the car? Some are stupid-simple, others are big deal-hard. If you could get everything out of the way so you`re just dealing with the panel and the holes in it/the plates/the rest individually it`d be a lot easier to get a good repair. Otherwise, the holes/slots/etc. that are the groundfloor of the rust problem are all filled up with the threaded bits (are they studs? bolts? I know *nothing* about this car..) to where you can`t really get in there to do a proper repair. Not that a "proper" repair is always what you have to do to solve the problem
If nothing else, this thread has prompted me to go about my Crown Vic the right way...sigh, more $ for products. Nobody else cares about my undercarriage, but I do and I`d rather not do it again in the foreseeable future.
Hey, something else I`m gonna forget if I don`t post it now- if/when you soak the rusty area with some Rust Killing Product via the "wet a paper towel with Product and keep it pressed against the rust somehow for a long time"- method, I`d use *VIVA* paper towels. Yeah, I know that specifying the brand of paper towel sounds nutty, but seriously...They`re very "cloth-like" compared to regular paper towels and while that makes them a little harder to satuate with Product, it also keeps them from disintegrating so much and IME they really do work considerably better for stuff like this.
Accumulator, I`m sorry, I didn`t mean to ignore your post above mine. I didn`t realize there was a second page. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, there`s not a whole lot of space in my townhouse garage to start removing struts and grinding away underneath. At this point, after I get my fuel injectors back from flow testing, I`m going to take the car to a body shop, so they can check it out. I`ll ask them about the products you mentioned to make sure they don`t cut any corners. I`ll post back when I find out. By the way, thank you for the Viva recommendation! 
Accumulator
Well-known member
jwyfk- OK, glad to be helpful. See what the bodyshop says. BE SUSPICIOUS! This is the kind of thing that so many shops will say "no problem buddy!", do a fix, take your $, and then a few years later you`re *right back where you started*, maybe even with even worse rust. (I worked in a bodyshop, I patronize a few *good* bodyshops. I know how this stuff goes and that`s one reason why I DIY this sort of stuff if at all possible. In ~40 years of having rust fixed, in cases like this I can honestly say that it often/usually came back to some extent unless they completely replaced the panels.) Eh, don`t mean to make you paranoid, but this is just one of those things where it`s *really* hard to get a permanent fix and really *easy* to get one that only lasts a short time.
I hear you on not being able to remove the strut, IMO that just means you`d have to rely on products that`ll creep into the tight spots and stay there to arrest the rust you can`t really get to.
Again, see what the shop says, post back if you like and I`ll be happy to give you my 2¢ I`d be all about avoiding paying for a temporary fix that ends up being wasted money.
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I hear you on not being able to remove the strut, IMO that just means you`d have to rely on products that`ll creep into the tight spots and stay there to arrest the rust you can`t really get to.
Again, see what the shop says, post back if you like and I`ll be happy to give you my 2¢ I`d be all about avoiding paying for a temporary fix that ends up being wasted money.
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