Paaste on a Liquid Wax or a liquid Wax on top of a paste???

M

mystickid

New member
For my LSP waxes, I will put NXT Tech Wax & top off with Megs #26.



Now my question is, what creates the best appearance & durability of these choices with good bonding (If at all, that they bond).



1) NXT Paste topped with #26 (liquid wax)



OR



2) #26 (Liquid wax) topped with NXT Pastewax



OR lastly



3) NXT Liquid wax tooped with #26 Liquid Wax



BTW, My car is Black.



Thanx.
 
Liquid waxes have more solvent content, so they could

remove some of the layer underneath it. Paste wax has

less solvent content, so it does not remove much if any

of the layer underneath. Keep in mind that this only applies

if the paste is a non cleaner wax.



So:



Liquid wax first, then paste wax after.
 
mystickid said:
Now my question is, what creates the best appearance & durability of these choices with good bonding (If at all, that they bond).



Thanx.
Click to expand...



Paste and liquid waxes both have recommended reapplication time/s/. The reason is that a certain time of drying assures that the volatile agents which help the wax be in an applyable condition /soft/ evaporates out. once these agents are gone ,what is left is a hard solvent (resistant) shell. By that I mean that the chosen solvent will not be able to soften the entire depth of the application once it has hardened. Both types of wax can be layered due to this, once enugh time has been given for the previous coat to harden. What happens with additional coats is a partial softening of the top of the previous coat, resulting in a kind of bonding (more like melting together) as the volatiles evaporate out leaving a seamless deposit of wax. Different types of waxes have different properties due to the solvent used. The carnauba is basically the same chemically. Polymer / wax mixes on top or under pure carnauba, basically depend on the solvent properties, not the mix of Polymer/wax. If the wax melds together, it works. In answer to your question, it hardy matters if you follow drying time directions.

:xyxthumbs
 
mochamanz -- Thanx for the excellent post. That makes alot of sense to me.



From what I understand, I can apply my paste over the liquid wax given I let the initial application of wax enough time to harden



So I really wanna know the "Safe" cure period of time that the # 26 liquid wax will harden ( or any wax for that matter).



Thanks.
 
I typically stick with the 24hr rule. I don't apply anything to the car or wash it until 24hrs has passed since any application of LSP.
 
Given the fact that #26 does not have any cleaner and that NXT has very slight cleaner I would use NXT paste first wait 12hours then use #26 to top it.
 
mystic,

Like others have said. Use a liquid then paste on top.



Try this:

Liquid NXT topped with either Megs 16 (if you can find it) or S100.



I've used liquid NXT topped with S100 and it's a great combo. Just let the liquid NXT cure over night, then coat with the S100.



S100 might be tricky to find locally. I found it a motorcycle shop, but autogeek has it.
 
Quote: mystic,

Like others have said. Use a liquid then paste on top.



Just be sure there are no polymers in the liquid wax, or you'll end up with a polymer over a Carnauba wax bonding issue

JonM
 
Okay, I'm a little confused here. When it comes to carnaubas, Paste waxes are my preference. But this thread intrigues me. If the consensus is to use a paste over liquid wax, then does that mean that a liquid wax ( say liquid #26 or liquid Souveran ) isn't layerable? Or.....Could one apply a liquid wax over a paste after a 24 hour period, then another layer of liquid wax 24 hours after that? How'bout CMW? Layerable? just curious........
 
I would think that if you let it cure for ~24 hrs, you could layer. But I'm not sure. The solvent, once it touches the current layer, might break it up. I dunno for sure. That's why i just use paste on top of Liquid
 
As I stated before, all waxes have solvents or softening agents incorporated into the formula. Too much of a layer, rubbing too hard, and not allowing the layers to "offgas" the evaporating chemical agents might hinder the "layering" of the wax. I think (speculate) that different "types" of wax might not mean that there are larger amounts of solvents present, however might be a difference in the emusification of the product. Liquids spread more easily and can be applyed with a machine much easier than a paste. That being said, the drying times for paste and liquid, the curing requirments are similar. I doubt there is an applicable rule here. The Polymer questions; I am really reluctant to say there is any issue as to bonding, since I am sure there is no bonding taking place. (as in the way sealnts bond) Wax and polymer mixes are dissimilar in that one is greasy and the other does not bond to paint in the presence of greases.... I am not sure if there are any polymers which have an affinity for wax and which will link to Carnauba. Maybe someone out there knows that question. I always look at wax with polymer the same way as I look at Teflon with sealants or waxes. Kind of a marketing ploy. but not much else. I hope someone proves me wrong on this, it would be nice to know that extra protection can be given to a wax application.
 
I'm of the mind, that, Liquid Vs. Paste waxes can be used on top of each other (layered to a ceratin extent) or vice-versa paste on Liquid *If* & only *If* each application of wax is properly cured & hardened so that the subsequent wax layer will not affect the previous hardened layer.



The best thing we can do is apply the theory through experimentation and share our experiences.
 
Blktac05,



Yeah, that'd be awesome. Let us know what happens. I have yet to get a digital camera. once i get one, i'll test & post pics too.
 
I've got the digital camera, but I have no idea how to post pics here. I can email pics without a problem, but keep in mind, I'm no "Computer Wizzrd"!! lol As for the testing of Liquid vs Paste........ I'm a Paste Wax kinda guy. The only liquid/Paste I have from the same manufacturer is Meg's #26. I have a 3 year old, unopenned bottle of liquid#26. ( & 8 cans of Meg's #26, thanks to the AutoZone .99 cent sale!! ) Other than that the pastes in my arsenal are: 2 Souverans, 2 P21S, 1 Trade Secret, 1 one grand blitz ( the 1 grand is untouched btw) the Clearkote Carnauba & Moose Wax will be on the wax next week. ( I do have the VM. Amazing when used with Souveran!! )Rain in the forecast all this week!
 
mochamanz said:
As I stated before, all waxes have solvents or softening agents incorporated into the formula. Too much of a layer, rubbing too hard, and not allowing the layers to "offgas" the evaporating chemical agents might hinder the "layering" of the wax. I think (speculate) that different "types" of wax might not mean that there are larger amounts of solvents present, however might be a difference in the emusification of the product. Liquids spread more easily and can be applyed with a machine much easier than a paste. That being said, the drying times for paste and liquid, the curing requirments are similar. I doubt there is an applicable rule here. The Polymer questions; I am really reluctant to say there is any issue as to bonding, since I am sure there is no bonding taking place. (as in the way sealnts bond) Wax and polymer mixes are dissimilar in that one is greasy and the other does not bond to paint in the presence of greases.... I am not sure if there are any polymers which have an affinity for wax and which will link to Carnauba. Maybe someone out there knows that question. I always look at wax with polymer the same way as I look at Teflon with sealants or waxes. Kind of a marketing ploy. but not much else. I hope someone proves me wrong on this, it would be nice to know that extra protection can be given to a wax application.
Click to expand...



Quote: When I launched Pinnacle in 1992, I started with Souveran Paste Wax for dark color vehicles and Paste Glaz Paste Wax for light color vehicles. In layman's terms, Paste Glaze contained a high polymer content for a brighter shine which compliments light colors while Souveran used wetting oils to increase the carnauba's natural jetting factor or darkening characteristic. Over time we found that we could put more polymers in a liquid product. The amount of wax in Paste Glaz was actually inhibiting the amount of shine we could produce. Liquid Souveran was introduced to compliment white, silver, grey, beige, light yellow and light blue finishes. It contains a base of Brazilian Ivory Carnauba for transparency but is packed with highly reflective, crystalline polymers.

Terry Freiberg, Classic Motoring Accessories, Newsletter #37 (Italics were added)
 
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