Optimum Polymer Technologies owner claims Yvan Lacroix from DIY & Dann Williams from Ceramic Pro / Owners Pride stole their formulas.

Catch-22

Member
Anyone see the video from Dr G claiming that Yvan Lacroix from DIY Detail & Dann Williams from Owners Pride / Ceramic Pro stole Optimum’s formulas while he was sick with cancer? Seems like a very unscrupulous thing to do and it might be landing both in hot water with lawsuits. The video is all over Facebook on Optimum’s page and in several other detailing groups.

 
Well, he didn't name them. Dr. G says he didn't have any non-disclosure or non-compete agreements, so not sure about his legal recourse. I don't know about Owner's Pride, but the DIY products don't really seem to be "the same" as any OPT, except maybe the sprayable polish. Besides, how much in detailing products is the actual formula? So much is the hype and hyperbole and salesmanship and personality. I mean Autogeek was able to have what, 5 captive product lines, differentiated mostly by the names, packaging, marketing, etc. Even Dr. G seems to have climbed aboard the hype train, with his TRCMA releases and hyperbole, vs. his old low-key chemist self.
 
I have watch this clip and have seen some of the discussions that have occurred.

One thing that strikes me about this is that 99% of the people commenting and arguing have no idea what the facts are. Even in watching the clip it is funny because people can't seem to separate statements, opinions, conjecture and facts. Dr G. does allude to things but doesn't come right our and say it. So these are statements, opinions, and conjecture.

The reality is that for these things to be facts for us the general public there needs to be shown and confirmed documentation for these claims. If people did steal the formulas and if a lawsuit finds that to be the case then we have confirmed documentation, but until then its just a click bait video. And people blindly trusting one side or the other are part of the problem because they are not seeking the truth.




I am a big Optimum fan and started with ONR and the original Opti-Coat and have just kept using Opti products because they work for me. But I can't blindly take statements found on the internet as the absolute truth without proof to back them up.
 
Yeah, click bait. It doesn't help that the OPT guy who posted the click bait on the OPT forum also claimed it was the reason that there were no other rinseless washes prior to 2019...so I scrounged up an old empty bottle of QEW and looked at the back and the copyright is 1998 (and of course all the other rinseless washes that existed prior to 2019). Plus he's the guy that said that you can't use pure IPA to prep for coatings because it leaves residue(?), but it's ok to use Optimum Panel Prep which contains...IPA.

I am also an Optimum fan but have been a bit disappointed, as I alluded to, that Dr. has taken to being more hyperbolic and updating products just so they can be NEW, because if you don't have stuff that is NEW then you are yesterday's news. Like when they went to ONR v.6 and it's THE BEST and UNMATCHED and I asked if they were going to be updating the ONRWW formula with the same technology, and the answer was "no, why?"
 
Its fun to get on a high horse and pretend there is no history here. Setec, glad you mentioned QEW, which was big when I first arrived at autopia. But before that, there was Mr. Clean the first rinselss, originally used as a boat cleaner. And yup, it still works great to this day.

Note the jingle from 1958:

Mr. Clean gets rid of dirt and grime and grease in just a minute!
Mr. Clean will clean your whole house and everything that's in it!

Verse 1:
Floors, doors, walls, halls, white sidewall tires, and old golf balls!
Sinks, stoves, bathtubs he'll do, he'll even help clean laundry too!

(Repeat Chorus)
Verse 2:
Can he clean a kitchen sink?
Quicker than a wink!
Can he clean a window sash?
Faster than a flash!
Can he clean a dirty mirror?
He'll make it bright & clearer!
Can he clean a diamond ring?
Mr. Clean cleans anything!

(Repeat Chorus)
Mr. Clean, Mr. Clean, Mr. Clean!

So yeah, starting in 1958 they were using rinseless on parts of cars, no doubt someone went beyond that, and here we are.
 
I have watch this clip and have seen some of the discussions that have occurred.

One thing that strikes me about this is that 99% of the people commenting and arguing have no idea what the facts are. Even in watching the clip it is funny because people can't seem to separate statements, opinions, conjecture and facts. Dr G. does allude to things but doesn't come right our and say it. So these are statements, opinions, and conjecture.

The reality is that for these things to be facts for us the general public there needs to be shown and confirmed documentation for these claims. If people did steal the formulas and if a lawsuit finds that to be the case then we have confirmed documentation, but until then its just a click bait video. And people blindly trusting one side or the other are part of the problem because they are not seeking the truth.




I am a big Optimum fan and started with ONR and the original Opti-Coat and have just kept using Opti products because they work for me. But I can't blindly take statements found on the internet as the absolute truth without proof to back them up.
I'm with you, Troy....
So sorry to hear about this new development...
Having got the Thin Coats practice from a year of using Zaino, (thanks, Sal) , using Optimum was so easy.... And I always liked listening to Dr. G....
Regardless of what/who/etc., I will always have some Optimum in my shop...
Yes, they went a little wild after awhile and were asking enormous pricing for their coating, and I had to step back...
Stokdgs
 
I love having fun with Ai on stuff like this, I can't wait until it makes full videos (for free, lol):

🎧 PODCAST TRANSCRIPT
Episode 87: “Rinse and Regret – Who Really Did It First?”





[INTRO MUSIC – retro funk beat fades under voiceover]


SUDS McGEE:

Yo yo yooo! Welcome back to the Grime Time GarageCast — your weekly dose of foam, fury, and frictionless finishes. I’m your host, Suds McGee, and today we’ve got a full garage


I’m talkin’ about the OGs of rinseless. The titans. The brands that made water optional and grit disposable.


Let’s introduce our guests:


  • First up, the powder-to-liquid pioneer, the bald-headed behemoth, the cleaner of golf balls and soulsMr. Clean™, welcome to the garage.

MR. CLEAN:
Pleasure’s mine, Suds. I brought a white towel and a mirror — I plan to leave both cleaner than I found them.


SUDS:
🔥 Off to a polished start.


Next: the RV trailblazer, the blue bottle with the brawn, the only wash trusted by both your uncle and your uncle’s 5th wheel — say hello to QEW!


QEW (gruff RV dad voice):
Back when ONR was still in diapers, I was cleaning dualies in Death Valley with a gallon jug and a dream. Let’s get this straight today.


SUDS:
Oof. Shots fired already. And finally — the polymer prince, the academic chemist turned cleaning capitalist, the sultan of slickness — ONR from Optimum.


ONR (smooth lab-coated tone):
Thank you, Suds. I believe the data — and the customer loyalty — speaks for itself. Let’s keep things civil, shall we?




[BELL SOUND – ROUND 1: “Who Was First?”]


SUDS:

Alright. Let’s get to the grime. Mr. Clean — set the stage.


MR. CLEAN:
1958. Linwood Burton. Marine cleaning legend.
My formula hit the shelves while Eisenhower was still president.
I cleaned sidewalls, stovetops, and swing sets before these other guys knew what a pH scale was.


QEW:
Respect, Clean. But you were for houses. I was built for rubber meeting road.
I went head-to-head with brake dust. I turned dry campgrounds into detail bays.
You wanna talk rinseless for vehicles? That’s me, baby.


ONR:
Let’s be honest. QEW was a noble prototype. But I brought science.
Suspension polymers. Lubricity metrics. Gloss enhancement.
Your customers brought buckets. Mine brought beakers.




[BELL SOUND – ROUND 2: “Who Did It Best?”]


SUDS:

Alright, it’s not just about who was first. It’s about results. Let’s talk finish, protection, user experience.


MR. CLEAN:
I made bathrooms sparkle before “beading” was a flex.
People sprayed me on chrome, mirrors, and even vinyl seats.
I was the universal solvent before it was cool.


QEW:
Cool story, Grandpa.
My people didn’t just use me on paint — they used me on oxidized gelcoat with dead bugs the size of squirrels.
I’m the reason boondockers have shiny rigs in the Mojave.


ONR:
Cute anecdotes.
Meanwhile, I’m being used by NASA engineers and concours-level detailers who demand a swirl-free finish with one towel pass.
Also — my users know how to pronounce “polymer.”




[BELL SOUND – ROUND 3: “Legacy and Impact”]


SUDS:

Final round. Why should you be remembered as the true King of Rinseless?


MR. CLEAN:
Because I made rinseless normal before the internet even existed.
Because I did it in a single bottle with a smiling face and zero YouTube tutorials.
Because I made cleaning cool.


QEW:
Because I made it possible to wash your vehicle in the desert legally.
Because I kept the water in your tank for coffee instead of your wash bucket.
And because ONR didn’t know what RV life even was when I started.


ONR:
Because I elevated the art.
I turned a blue bottle into an empire of enthusiasts.
Because while you two were trying to prove you were first, I proved I was the future.




[OUTRO MUSIC — smooth fade under]


SUDS:

Whew! Sponges were thrown. Buckets overturned.
We may not have a winner, but we definitely have legends.


Stay rinseless, stay reckless, and remember:
Whether you’re Team QEW, ONR, or Mr. Clean — if your towel glides, you’re doing it right.


This is Suds McGee, signing off from the Grime Time GarageCast.
Peace, love, and clean panels.
 
So yeah, starting in 1958 they were using rinseless on parts of cars, no doubt someone went beyond that, and here we are.
Is that a good comparison? I mean Windex, Spray Nine, Fantastick are all rinseless washes if you look at it that way. And that just makes Dr. G look like the ultimate copy-cat.
 
I'm with you, Troy....
So sorry to hear about this new development...
Having got the Thin Coats practice from a year of using Zaino, (thanks, Sal) , using Optimum was so easy.... And I always liked listening to Dr. G....
Regardless of what/who/etc., I will always have some Optimum in my shop...
Yes, they went a little wild after awhile and were asking enormous pricing for their coating, and I had to step back...
Stokdgs
Whose coating do you use now?
 
Is that a good comparison? I mean Windex, Spray Nine, Fantastick are all rinseless washes if you look at it that way. And that just makes Dr. G look like the ultimate copy-cat.
Mr Clean was all about rinsing wasn't needed. Try it sometime, it really works just like older versions of ONR. Even down to the dirt sticking to the side of the bucket. Its my go to for interiors where I don't want mystery polymers and other things. And I use it on paint prior to polishing (and have used it in a pinch for general washing).
 
Mr Clean was all about rinsing wasn't needed. Try it sometime, it really works just like older versions of ONR. Even down to the dirt sticking to the side of the bucket. Its my go to for interiors where I don't want mystery polymers and other things. And I use it on paint prior to polishing (and have used it in a pinch for general washing).
Oh, I see, you're a heretic. Mr. Clean isn't a CAR product, you can't use a household or kitchen product on your CAR. I would/could never use Mr. Clean on my whitewalls, so excuse me while I go back to scrubbing them with my Brillo pad.
 
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Reactions: Dan
The full video is on YouTube in case anyone is interested in hearing the entire interview. I can’t imagine Dr G lying about his claims. And if is indeed true I’m not sure what recourse is able to be pursued?

 
I started watching that video, and it seems like the same muddled marketing message that Optimum always has. Dr. G starts out by thanking the host, and telling him he's been watching the podcasts, but that he (Dr. G) didn't even know the host was doing them, and that they do it all on their own without any support from Optimum.

But...from what I can tell, that video is on the company-owned Opti-Coat YouTube channel...which is confusing in itself because there is a separate Optimum Polymer Technologies channel. Just like there is an Opticoat website and an OptimumCarCare website. So who is the host of this Optimum podcast, does he work for Optimum, is he just a fan?

I just don't understand how you have content on your corporate YouTube channel that you, the owner of the company "didn't know" was being done, and you don't (financially) support it, by someone who seemingly is not connected with the company. It just reminds me of the forum rep that Optimum had, who moderated the Optimum forum, and came on here and AGO and perhaps other forums to answer questions and promote the brand, who after some years of doing that, got canned and deleted all his posts from the OPT forum, rendering most of the content there to gibberish.

Similar to the Optimum podcast that Yvan and Dann did, that apparently OPT had no control over, and disappeared when those guys left, taking all that content with them...it would seem the same could happen now with this "new" podcast. Dr. G seems rather naïve about this stuff considering I think he has an MBA and surely signed his life (and his inventions) away to PPG and Kleen Strip when he worked for them.

As a counterpoint, all the videos that Mike Phillips did for Autogeek are still there, because obviously Bob McKee knew how to write employment agreements, and that content belonged to and was under the control of the company. As I have said before, I am an OPT fan but Dr. G has never seemed to see the need for someone to competently handle the marketing, etc., it seems everyone is always part-time as a side gig to their full-time job, including Yvan in the beginning.
 
So, unless there is a lawsuit/litigation involving the aligations, the he-said-she-said is just that. I am trying to differentiate what is fact and what is fiction or partial truth.
I do not try to make judgements without knowing all the facts and the story from both sides.
One question I do have: is this coating formula patented? I ask because if it is, some of the chemicals and production methods or processes must be devulged with the patent, making it possible to duplicate. This is THE reason Coke-Cola ingredients, formulas, and processes have never been patented and kept secret known only by few trusted people; to avoid knowledge to duplicate/replicate it.
Setec:
Good point about working for someone else and signing your monetary royalties away to chemical, mechanical, art, literary, and musical creations that one "invents" while working. That's just part and parcel and standard business practice in today's world.

Side note to this: I personally like and use Optimum's products because they work and are reasonably priced, their Power Clean
APC and Metal Polish being some of my favorites.
 
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