I'm Stupid! /Tire Dressing Error

jimmybuffit

jimmybuffit

That'll buff right out!
So I got new tires (and wheels, and Sway Bars, and Roll Bar!) for my 92 (45k) Miata.



Car was in the shop for a week, so I gave it a good wash, and, of course, dressed the new Kumho MX tires.



Driving home, I took the fun way. A twisty with a left 90, 1/8 mile, right 90...



Full power into the 1st left 90, and actually had NO traction! I turned, the car went straight. Very scary. The car ate some grass, but it got traction immediately in the dirt, and I was able to come right back to the pavement. Missed a beat, but only a beat.



This was one of those deals that could have involved a tree, a vehicle, or even a person!



Boy! Am I lucky!



Boy! Am I stupid!



All this because of tire dressing!



Jim



PS I put this in the 'Pro Forum' because I should know better!
 
Really very little, if any.



My vision is that there was enough sidewall flex (these are great tires), to allow the slide.



I'll try the same 'twisty' in a few days, once the dressing has 'set'.



Damn, it was scary!



Jim
 
I don't think it was the tire spray. New tires often exhibit that trait until they heat cycle a few times and abrade the surface a bit. The tires will get better just give them a break-in period.
 
jfelbab said:
I don't think it was the tire spray. New tires often exhibit that trait until they heat cycle a few times and abrade the surface a bit. The tires will get better just give them a break-in period.
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Agreed. New tires can be scary until you get a few miles on them.
 
Yep, I had some Continental tires on my Integra that I took off and almost gave away because of their greasy feeling while breaking in. I was just too used to the grip of the Pirelli tires that had come off I guess.
 
Jimmy,

I just got 2 Bridgestone SO-3s for my rears and as soon as I got out of the Costco parking lot, I opened up just a tad and the rear just about snapped around. I didn't panic as I had in the back of my mind a comment from a motorcycle rider who said that he had to scuff off some kind of skin on the treads of new tires before he can really lean on them. Once scuffed, my tires perform wonderfully.
 
My Falken Azenis, which are very similar on traction to the Kumho MX tires, were the same the first few miles. I put about 300 easy street miles on the tires before my first autocross, and they have been doing great ever since.



-Keith
 
Since these were new tires, perhaps they were just a bit greasy from not having been heat cycled a few times. However, I have had a similar situation happen to my in the past in my Talon . . . dressed the tires, went for a drive, and took a corner a little hot. Mongo understeer; the car was still sporting fairly tall sidewalls at the time (still running 205/55/16s back then, IIRC), and when I turned in, the sidewall flexed enough that the fresh tire dressing came into play. How do I know? After thanking the PTB that I hadn't curbed the wheels, I got out to see if I had a tire going down or something that would have caused the much-larger-than-normal push. The scuff marks on the sidewall (not scuffed from a curb) told the story; the sidewall rolled under, and I found out PDMS isn't a traction enhancer.



Live and learn.



Tort
 
Actually, it was probably driver error secondary to severe over- or understeering because of NEW suspension dynamics. New SwayBar and New tires = change in handling of already reactive vehicle.



All tire dressing and new tire sealant(mold releasing agent) was worn off within a 1/4 of normal driving.

If the tires flexed enough that you were riding on the sidewalls they are dangerously underinflated or poorly designed. I doubt either was the case.



Moral: re-learn your vehicles handling/steering characteristics. Then have some fun. :wavey
 
blkZ28Conv said:
Actually, it was probably driver error secondary to severe over-steer because of NEW suspension dynamics. New SwayBar and new tires = change in handling of already reactive vehicle.
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Might want to re-read that original post . . . he understeered through the corner (tried to turn in, car didn't cooperate).



You're right about getting used to the suspension changes though; perhaps the new settings are prone to pushing in the corners, and need some tweaks to balance it out.



Tort
 
TortoiseAWD said:
Might want to re-read that original post . . . he understeered through the corner (tried to turn in, car didn't cooperate).



You're right about getting used to the suspension changes though; perhaps the new settings are prone to pushing in the corners, and need some tweaks to balance it out.



Tort
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You right Tort. I had already changed my post to incorporate either situation. :bow
 
beastie said:
Jimmy,

I just got 2 Bridgestone SO-3s for my rears and as soon as I got out of the Costco parking lot, I opened up just a tad and the rear just about snapped around. I didn't panic as I had in the back of my mind a comment from a motorcycle rider who said that he had to scuff off some kind of skin on the treads of new tires before he can really lean on them. Once scuffed, my tires perform wonderfully.
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how do u like those so-3's? i was thinkin about getting some for my car... and how come only 2 for your rears?
 
Thanks to all for the insight.



Upon reflection, I don't think the tire dressing was an issue. Nor do I think sidewall flex played a part.



The sidewalls are still nicely dressed, and the 'overspray' (I wiped it on) only extends maybe an inch into the tread area.



I drove the car home from the shop, maybe 10-12 miles, mostly interstate. Then I went for a ride!



I need to find a BIG parking lot, without light posts...



Again thanks to all for your input... I gotta get comfortable with the new setup, as I have shocks and springs coming soon (backordered from Flyin Miata).



Jim
 
Did you get a beefed up front sway bar? If so, that could have upset the balance. Bigger front sway bar (than stock)=more understeer, bigger rear=more oversteer.



On some rear bars, you can adjust the stiffness added from the bar to increase/decrease oversteer by moving the mounting points. My Maxima's can be fine-tuned this way to balance it all out.



Everyone else is right on about new tires. After you get some miles (I go a couple hundred), try pushing them again. By this time, they'll be "broken" in, and you'll also be more accustomed to their handling characteristics. My Potenza RE750's took a little while before they started sticking like glue.



Dave
 
Dave has a good point. When I first got an upper strut bar, my car would plow like crazy through cloverleafs but once I got my rear upper strut, the understeer was much less pronounced.
 
Two things about new tires that you have to remember is that they have mold-release of some kind on the surface, and also many tires are still constructed with injection molding "nibs" still on the surface. I don't know about a brand new design like the Kumho MX, but even my ES100s have these things. Remember the old days when new tires were so incredibly "hairy"? :)



Anyway, those two things are reasons why you should take it easy for a little while, because they'll reduce ultimate grip a bit. TireRack recommends a few hundred miles I think.
 
NavindraLR,

I love the SO-3s. They are one of the best street tires available. They are very good in both dry and wet . This is strictly a summer tire. Treacherous in a coating of snow. But used as a summer performance tire, only top of the line Toyo can match it. I prefer the SO-3 because of stiffer sidewall (better turn-in). Toyo may have better ultimate grip but need to wait for tire to "take a set" when cornering. Plan on getting snow tires when you get these but it is worth it if you enjoy sports cars.
 
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