detailing vs. restoration...lets discuss

E

Envious Eric

New member
Question: At what point does detailing become a restoration of a vehicle?



I want to hear the responses coming from the weekend detailer, the everyday detailer, and the "once in a while I'll detail my own car detailer" alike.



I have been getting more people who want their car completely cleaned top to bottom for "bottom dollar." I try and explain my best that their 10 year neglected car needs a restoration, not a detail, but they insist that it just needs a good coat of wax applied and only want to spend max of $75 because that is what "joe shmo" will charge for the whole thing and I need to match his pricing if I want the job. I try to explain that waxing alone will not bring back the shine and that the paint needs some compounding and polishing as well, that the faded trim needs to be dyed black again, not just dressed, and that the water spotted and scratched windows need to be replaced, not wiped clean.



Trying to grasp an understanding of what others are saying to their potential clients on the differences to make them understand what their car needs and doesnt need....
 
toyotaguy said:
Question: At what point does detailing become a restoration of a vehicle?



I want to hear the responses coming from the weekend detailer, the everyday detailer, and the "once in a while I'll detail my own car detailer" alike.



I have been getting more people who want their car completely cleaned top to bottom for "bottom dollar." I try and explain my best that their 10 year neglected car needs a restoration, not a detail, but they insist that it just needs a good coat of wax applied and only want to spend max of $75 because that is what "joe shmo" will charge for the whole thing and I need to match his pricing if I want the job. I try to explain that waxing alone will not bring back the shine and that the paint needs some compounding and polishing as well, that the faded trim needs to be dyed black again, not just dressed, and that the water spotted and scratched windows need to be replaced, not wiped clean.



Trying to grasp an understanding of what others are saying to their potential clients on the differences to make them understand what their car needs and doesnt need....
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Good topic. Everyday drivers just dont understand, I love when I hear They do it such and such for $50, my eyes roll and I mentally shut down and do what ever I can to get them out of my hair, now every once in a while I will get they do it for $50, what is the difference...SCORE!!! Someone who might value there vehicle and is concerned that someone says they are detailing there car for $50, when they have been qoted a higher price.
 
The best you can do is explain the difference between the service you offer and the service that detail company x offers. Concentrate on the value of your service and not the price. Explain to them that you can apply wax to a neglected finish, however, it will not come out nearly as good as if you polish and wax it. Once it is properly explained, and people understand the value, they usually go for the polish and wax.
 
I get a price shopper occasionally or one that wants a "quick coat of wax". After I explain that my primary background is auto reconditioning of BMW's for a dealer and the process involved, they either go down the road or want my services.



In auto reconditioning (or restoration), I don't know who the buyer of the BMW will be, so I prepare the car as close to "as new" condition as possible. If the wheels are chipped or scraped, they go to a wheel painting person. If the front bumper is too badly chipped from road use, it gets a re-paint. If the leather is worn, we have a person that re-dyes the seat. On the paint side: I wet sand scratches that are substantial, then compound the car entirely. Following compound, the car is power washed to remove compound dust, then it gets Swirl Remover or Menzerna Intensive Polish. Another power wash, then 3M Ultrafina and a final power wash to remove any excess product from body seams. Lastly, the car gets a coat of #26.



When I do driveway detailing, the car will get Meguiar's 83 and some light compounding in scratchy areas, followed by #26 or #21 (depending upon owner preference).



The 2 big factors are: Reconditioning is a shop environment with a lift, tons of lighting, and all the equipment I need to do the job. On-Site is usually the customer's garage with unknown lighting, dusty or dirty environment, and a good old garden hose for work.



Most private clients that I do work for know of my reconditioning work at the BMW shop and recognize the level of work I am capable of. A lot of them come to the shop to see the cars I've done and that is the single biggest factor in getting a premium price for my services.



Hope that helps.



Toto
 
Noting that I'm not a pro...



I think of detailing as fairly basic compound/polish/LSP + interior. That's not to say it might not be a huge job though.



Next comes reconditioning and Totoland Mach epitomizes that level of work. This is about as far as one can go while keeping a vehicle "completely original" as I define that term.



Restoration IMO involves significant paint and body work, upholstery, etc.- the vehicle is no longer original once it's been "restored".
 
Coming from someone who just go into the more detailed idea of detailing a year ago, my idea of "detailing" is just what most people want, which is just a wash, vacuum, and wax. Prior to buying a PC, I would have thought of hardcore polishing as something done at a body shop, which to me is more along the lines of restoration.



I think the problem you are having with these people is you are trying to sell them more than what they think they need. People are just used to seeing 95% of cars on the road that are lucky to see wax once a year. You just need to find some way to convey to prospective customers how much better the car will look with polishing instead of just wax. The trouble is, I bet 90% of those price shoppers will never be convinced to spend the money on your services. They already think it's too expensive, and have made up their minds. They would rather spend the money on something else.
 
This is why i do not call myself a detailer and correct those who call me that.



Im a vehicle reconditioning specialist, i DO NOT wash and wax vehicles :lol
 
Grimm said:
Coming from someone who just go into the more detailed idea of detailing a year ago, my idea of "detailing" is just what most people want, which is just a wash, vacuum, and wax. Prior to buying a PC, I would have thought of hardcore polishing as something done at a body shop, which to me is more along the lines of restoration.



I think the problem you are having with these people is you are trying to sell them more than what they think they need. People are just used to seeing 95% of cars on the road that are lucky to see wax once a year. You just need to find some way to convey to prospective customers how much better the car will look with polishing instead of just wax. The trouble is, I bet 90% of those price shoppers will never be convinced to spend the money on your services. They already think it's too expensive, and have made up their minds. They would rather spend the money on something else.
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^^ ditto Grimm on this - took the words right out of my mouth.



I wouldn't have believed you either if I hadn't paid $300 to have my car pro-detailed. The difference is awesome, and definitely worth it.



It's just one of those subjects which you'll never be able to put across to Joe Public. Take a look at those skinny babes on the catwalks dressed up in the crappest clothes, wearing a see-through box over their heads ?!? Do you understand why people get excited by this ??.....me neither :confused:
 
I wonder at which point compounding becomes restoration? Wool pad? Diamond Cut? Wetsanding? Is it determined by damage and not the actually restorative process? Kind of an interesting discussion.
 
Picus said:
I wonder at which point compounding becomes restoration? Wool pad? Diamond Cut? Wetsanding? Is it determined by damage and not the actually restorative process? Kind of an interesting discussion.
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I would say when you can not simply correct the paint by using a polisher, and have to resort to using some tougher technique such as wet-sanding.



Could you also say that it is down to the amount of time required to correct paintwork, aka restore ? And if so, how long do you consider a detailing length of time or a restoration length of time ?
 
Restoration is the wrong word, reconditioning would be the correct word.



Reconditioning IMO would be anything that returns the car back to the way it rolled out of the factory WITHOUT replacing any parts and/or repainting.
 
Accumulator said:
Noting that I'm not a pro...



I think of detailing as fairly basic compound/polish/LSP + interior. That's not to say it might not be a huge job though.



Restoration IMO involves significant paint and body work, upholstery, etc.- the vehicle is no longer original once it's been "restored".
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I agree with this was way thinking and would continue along these lines ....



If I can clean up what is there it is detailing even if that involves heavy compounding on the outside or serious stain removal on the inside.



If I have to add something, such as touch-up paint or trim dye, that is reconditioning.
 
Coupe said:
This is why i do not call myself a detailer and correct those who call me that.



Im a vehicle reconditioning specialist, i DO NOT wash and wax vehicles :lol
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I dont call myself a pro either, I do detail for money though and I am good at it. I refuse to do wash and waxes, not worth my time. I do not want to work on peoples cars that are just shopping on price. So and so will do it for $100, well then go to them. No skin off my back.
 
Great thread!

The work that I do goes from both detailing to reconditioning (my title is Auto Reconditioning Specialist). I agree that many people are not accurately informed on the differences between 'wash', 'detail', and 'recondition'.



While on a typical 'detail', I already have an idea how long I am going to spend on the vehicle and my set prices are accurate to what I need to make. [4-5 hours, comp/polish/lsp]. I generally do not compound the entire car and I explain to clients that this removes most scratches/swirls/holograms.



On the other hand, I consider 'reconditioning' any vehicles that require more than just a swift compound and polish. These either get billed by the hour or I give them a higher price estimate over my package 'detail' prices. I have had reconditioning jobs take anywhere between 8 and 20 hours and could entail just a concentrated compounding of the paint surface to wetsanding and paint touchup.



Even though I make most of my money detailing, I prefer doing full reconditioning jobs because I like the dedication it takes.
 
A vehicle can be reconditioned, but not detailed. You could be iether one or both. Just because someone compounds and scrubbs(reconditions) an entire vehicle doesn't make it white glove "detailed". There's a big difference. The highest form of perfection is doing both in conjunction with one another.
 
I draw the line on what cars I want to put my name on.



If the vehicle needs substantial work in order to meet my standards, and they don't want to do that work, then I won't do the job. It is plain and simple. There are plenty of people out there without the work ethic and integrity to really stand behind their product. They will simply do a half *** job as quick as they can so they can get their money and get out the door.



Most of the real pros on this forum aren't like that. They stand behind their work and their results, and they won't settle for things that are substandard. If the customer is basically asking for substandard work, then tell them to move on. I would much rather turn down a job than put my name on something that isn't indicative of the quality of my work.
 
smprince1 said:
I agree with this was way thinking and would continue along these lines ....



If I can clean up what is there it is detailing even if that involves heavy compounding on the outside or serious stain removal on the inside.



If I have to add something, such as touch-up paint or trim dye, that is reconditioning.
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I have to disagree. Because you are adding something that use to be there from the factory. But I don't know. I know what I want to say but can't put it into words. :sosad
 
toyotaguy said:
Question: At what point does detailing become a restoration of a vehicle?



I want to hear the responses coming from the weekend detailer, the everyday detailer, and the "once in a while I'll detail my own car detailer" alike.



I have been getting more people who want their car completely cleaned top to bottom for "bottom dollar." I try and explain my best that their 10 year neglected car needs a restoration, not a detail, but they insist that it just needs a good coat of wax applied and only want to spend max of $75 because that is what "joe shmo" will charge for the whole thing and I need to match his pricing if I want the job. I try to explain that waxing alone will not bring back the shine and that the paint needs some compounding and polishing as well, that the faded trim needs to be dyed black again, not just dressed, and that the water spotted and scratched windows need to be replaced, not wiped clean.



Trying to grasp an understanding of what others are saying to their potential clients on the differences to make them understand what their car needs and doesnt need....
Click to expand...





I just had a girl leave my shop not ten minutes ago that I had to endure explaining this to. She couldn't understand why her 1995 Corolla that has been used and abused and never cleaned should cost $175 to shampoo. Some people will never get it nd your best bet is to avoid them like the plague. The majority of complaints I have had in 14 years is trying to accomodate someone by doing a smaller job than they need and then have them nit pick it to death afterwards when I told them UP FRONT that they needed a more thorough package. I just politely refuse to do their work and get back to finding people that are willing to pay for the work that we do.
 
stiffdogg06 said:
I have to disagree. Because you are adding something that use to be there from the factory. But I don't know. I know what I want to say but can't put it into words. :sosad
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Disagree all you want .... these forums are for everybody to express their opinions :D
 
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