Confusion about 303 and "Other" Vinyl Protectants...

M

MBZ 500E

New member
I received two free sample packets of 303 in the mail (thanks for the tip BlkZ28) which I will be testing in the next couple of weeks. Along with the samples I received 4 brochures explaining why 303 is the best product to use on my vinyl and rubber. But I'm a bit confused about some statments and I need some help.



1. 303 is stating that with regular use of their product on vinyl it will "dramatically extend the useful life". Won't any good Vinyl protectant with UV inhibitors do the same thing? Is it because they don't have any petroleum content in their product that they can improve the life of vinyl? Their reasoning is that their product isn't oily, doesn't attract dirt and has UV protection. I can list at least two other products that have these exact qualities but I'm pretty sure they are either oil based or have petroleum distillates in them.



2. 303 claims that it's product will protect your surface from water damage because it prevents water from getting into the vinyl. So this means that 303 is not water based right? And it can't be oil or petroleum based, so what exactly is it? Just curious if 303 has found a chemical which has UVA / UVB characteristics in liquid form?



3. 303 has cleaning abilities according to the advertising, so does this mean it has a surfactant in it? If yes has anyone noticed that the product foams? Again just want to figure the product out.



Please don't take offense to these questions, I'm asking because I need to justify with real world reasons why I should spend double what I'm spending now and go out of my way to find the product. I've already been burned with my own past comment about trusting a manufacturer based on their claims, so I want to hear real world answers.



I would really love to know if anyone has done a real test comparing this product to others on the market. If yes what were the results and what did the test consist of?



Thanks gals/guys for your input and I hope this thread will be helpful for others.
 
My understanding of 303 vs others ( Armor All, etc) is that has higher quality and/or more refined ingredients.



However, doesn't mean no other rubber/vinyl products cannot also do at least some of the things 303 claims



Ive read the ads too but Ive let my final deciding factor to use 303 be based on testimonials of others here on Autopia. I don't believe Ive read anyone being particularly dissatisfied with it. Ive seen loads and loads of praise for it so I stick to it.



Hope this sorta of helps.
 
MBZ 500E- I haven't done any real " comparison tests" but I did finally buy some 303 since so many Autopians think it's great. I dunno if it's all THAT superior in any functional sense. Yeah, 303 is renowned for its UV protection, and it's a great product, but you can't put TOO much weight on their "our product rocks, it's so special" spiel. I sure wouldn't blow off a good product over the cost difference (especially considering you're using it on the 500E!), but it's not like you're likely to have some problem if you use something else instead.



Consider how pampered your Benz is, too. I pamper my XJS in a similar manner, and its vinyl/rubber/etc. is fine after 19 years...and I don't use 303 on it. In fact, I can't remember EVER having a real problem with these sort of materials as long as I treated them with SOMETHING. I sure don't think you'd be doing your Benz a disservice by using a different product if there's something you like better.



Let's see if I can address a few of your specific concerns..



FWIW, and this is just *IMO*, this whole "petroleum distillates are bad" thing is quite overblown. Note that I've used *WAX* :eek: (lots of pd's!) on the rubber bumper covers and exterior vinyl trim on the XJS all these years and it's possibly the best preserved stuff on the car!



"Water damage" to the vinyl/rubber on your car? I dunno about water getting "into" it...you haven't had any problems with the 500E in this regard, right? Might not be a valid concern at all. Keeping *SOME* ERV dressing on it oughta do just fine as far as "protecting against water damage". But yeah, many of the "good" ERV dressings are water based, and BTW, they wash off to some extent in the rain.



I dunno if there's a surfactant in 303, but many (most?) ERV dressings have SOME cleaning ability, whether they're advertised as having it or not. And no, I never noticed any foaming. It just goes on like every other ERV dressing, at least for me.



Heh heh, sounds like 303's advertisng dept. has got you paranoid about whether you're properly caring for your baby, which is what they're TRYING to do ;)
 
Bill,



Thank you for your comments, they do help. Question for you, do the testimonials that you've read refer to 303's ease of application and appearance or to how the product has protected their vinyl? Again because I was burnt by past comments of trusting manufacturers claims I want to hear testimonials from Autopians that have actually tested 303's claims. I imagine a test like this would take years unless someone has done an accelerated test.



Accumulator,



You've pretty much hit the nail on the head and I'm pretty sure you understand where I'm coming from based on your comments.



Your right, I do have concerns about the products I've used on the vinyl in my car and I wonder if they're indeed harming the vinyl or not.:nixweiss If I listened to 303's statements then I'd be scrambling to source new vinyl for all the trim in my interior, but like you I've yet to have any vinyl in any of my vehicles ever crack/fade or crumble and IMO I've used some pretty bad products in the past albeit on a regular basis.:( :nixweiss



You're right, price isn't as much of a concern as making sure the car is protected properly, I guess I shouldn't have used that as a reason not to switch. My biggest reason not to switch is I'm very happy with the MB vinyl care product. I like it's looks, it's application and how it smells. It's also easily acquired through any MB dealer for $11.00. 303 would have to really offer superior protection for me to switch.



I'd also want proof that petroleum distillates and oil are indeed bad for vinyl (as claimed), since I haven't had evidence otherwise with the exception of certain silicones I find it hard to believe. I'm going to do my own research on this to determine if it's true.



I think as consumers we are all being misled by good marketing (not just 303) and rather than just accepting it I'd really like scientific proof. As another wise Autopian put it, I want to be objective not subjective.;)
 
BlackRegal said:
Do a search on Ron K. and 303... you should come up with the thread.
Click to expand...



Thank you BlackRegal, I will definitely do the search.:) You've also made some good points in your post which I'm also going to take into consideration.
 
Hi MBZ,



I learned about and decided to use 303 from reading testimonials of Autopians and from other websites.I basically relied on what they reported. Looks like its been a favorite product for a long time. Everything I read indicated 303 is a high quality product, easy to use and has just the right look ( more mate than gloss)the users required. Throw in the marketing about it providing superior UV and water damage protection and it sounded like a good product to use. Last thing that got me to try it is that its availible in gallon sizes. I've often found other similar products are tough to get in gallon sizes.



I will be looking into accelerated tests of this product also.
 
MBZ,



The others have made some really good points. I've been using 303 for over a year now, and am still on the same 16 oz bottle. I've found a little goes a LONG way. I mainly only use it on my car, but that does include tires.



I'm usually very skeptical about manufacturer's claims. The same with 303 when I first checked their site and used their free samples. But I figured with the number of obsessive (I mean detail oriented) people on here singing its praise, it can't be bad. They were right. I really like all of its qualities.



How does it do what 303 claims? I don't know, but BlackRegal made a good point about the water based deal (auto paint, too). I do know that water seems to bead on any treated surface. And it has really cut down on the amount of dust on my interior. My tires stay BLACK longer (not shiny, just clean & black). My dash hasn't cracked yet. And I really like the matte or satin finish it leaves (no glare on my windshield from a shiny, plastic looking dash). I actually get compliments from non-Autopians about this trait.



I have found that the secret to using 303 is to allow it a minute or two to penetrate, then buff off. This helps "set" the product, and greatly increases the durability (which a handful of people seem to have problems with, but not me). And remember that a little goes a long way.



The initial cost may seem steep ($15/16 oz), but it is definitely worth it IMHO. I've tried many other vinyl/rubber dressings, but this one is a keeper.



Dave
 
Well I've had a chance to read through a bunch of Rons posts and I think I'm getting a better understanding of vinyl products in general, thanks for the tip BlackRegal!



The jury is still out on the petroleum distillates being bad and I will continue to search on this and post what I find. From what I gather so far, it really depends on the type of petroleum distillate being discussed. To generalize and say all petroleum distillates are bad I believe is incorrect, again I need to research this further.



As far as comparing 303's appearance/application qualities to my existing products on the shelf, well I can't do this until I actually try it which will have to wait until this weekend. Stay tuned.:)
 
"To Whom It May Concern,



I've been interested in the subject of Vinyl protection and the truths and myths behind it. This is of interest to me mainly as a consumer who has many vinyl products in my home and automobile.



My particular questions are directed more towards the vinyl products used in Automobiles. Some statements I've heard include "all petroleum distillates are bad for vinyl" and "oil will harm vinyl". Can these statements be clarified for myself and many other car enthusiasts? I do have a chemical background and thus don't have a problem with chemical descriptions if necessary.



Also with regards to maintaining my vinyl products, what products/chemicals would the vinyl institute suggest to clean and what products/chemicals would the vinyl institute suggest to protect vinyl. The vinyl in question will be subject to direct and indirect sunlight as well as some light dirt, oil and dust.



I appreciate your time and look forward to your response.



Kind Regards,

Afshin Nayeri

e-Mail: placo1@msn.com"



I'll post their response on here if/when I receive one.
 
MBZ,



When I bought my downey tonneau cover last year the instructions stated that they recommend 303 and only 303. They said that using other protectants might damage the top coat of the vinyl over time. Is this true? Who knows, but I use it. Like accumulator stated earlier, the advertising department of 303 might have a lot of people wondering. I'm in this group also. I also use it on my tires and leather.



I also share your concern about the petroleum distillates thing. I'm still confused on this issue as I too have called and talked to different companies looking for an answer. Seems like I get different responses from different people. Here's a quote from Mike Phillips when I asked him about this very same issue. Seems like his take is that it's what added to petroleum distillates that make them bad.



"I know a lot of people have a knee jerk reaction when they see the words Contains Petroleum Distillates, on the label, but that doesn't always mean a bad thing.



(I used to be one of them and still am upon smelling some products),



From the FAQ



29. I have been told that products that contain petroleum distillates are bad for my car’s finish. What does Meguiar’s have to say about this considering some of your products list petroleum distillates in the “Caution Statement�, on the back labels?



Petroleum distillates are a huge category that includes thousands of products. In fact, the term refers to anything that comes from the distillation, or cracking process of petroleum crude oil.



This includes gasoline, propane, paint thinners, mineral oils, paraffin wax, baby oil, Vaseline® and even Chap-Stick® just to name a few.



All of the above-mentioned products fall under the category of Petroleum Distillates. While some petroleum distillates can be very dangerous, others are very safe. To group all petroleum distillates into one category and label them harmful or dangerous is unfair. Like the dishonest claim that silicones are harmful, claiming all petroleum distillates are harmful is also dishonest and disingenuous.



It is an indicator the person or company making the claim either doesn't know very much about the chemistry involved in manufacturing car care products, or they are willfully engaged in deceitful marketing ploys in an effort to fool their target market.



While it's likely there are car care products on the market that do use inexpensive solvents derived from petroleum crude oil in their formula's, Meguiar's only uses ingredients, including petroleum distillates, that are combined in a way to create a product that is beneficial to the paint. In other words, the product improves or creates beauty; it does not diminish or lessen beauty. Because we work closely with automotive paint companies, we know how to protect and maximize all aspects of automotive surface coatings.



Meguiar's Petroleum Distillates



The petroleum distillates Meguiar’s uses are,



* Environmentally Safe

* Contain No Aromatic Hydrocarbons

* Contain No other Serious Air Pollutants



They are also distilled multiple times to remove,



* Carcinogens

* Reproductive Toxins

* Multiple other Impurities





You will be hard pressed to find another automotive appearance care company that goes to the extent Meguiar's goes to in order to create products that are both environmentally safe as well as safe for use by their customers.



I couldn't easily/quickly snag the picture of Chap Stick that is imbedded in the FAQ, so use your imagination. On the label it says, contains 44% petrolatums."
 
III,



I'm hoping my email to the Vinyl Institute will shed some light on this issue and we can all know for sure which claims are true and which are false. Hope they respond.



Here is an article taken from the Vinyl Institute on how Vinyl is made.



"How Is Vinyl Made?

Complex Chemistry Based on Common Salt



Like all plastic materials, vinyl results from a series of processing steps that convert hydrocarbon-based raw materials (petroleum, natural gas or coal) into unique synthetic products called polymers. The vinyl polymer is unusual, however, because it is based only in part on hydrocarbon feedstocks: ethylene obtained by processing, or cracking, natural gas or petroleum. The other half of the vinyl polymer is based on the natural element chlorine.



Chlorine gives vinyl two advantages. First, chlorine is derived from brine -- a solution of common salt and water, and a readily available, inexpensive commodity. Thus, vinyl is less sensitive to fluctuations in the world oil market than are totally oil dependent polymers.



Second, chlorine has excellent inherent flame retardant properties. These properties are passed on directly to vinyl end-products, making vinyl an excellent choice for applications such as electrical conduit and wiring that require high resistance to ignition and flame spread.



From Monomer to Polymer Product



Through a chemical reaction, ethylene and chlorine combine to form ethylene dichloride which, in turn, is transformed into a gas called vinyl chloride monomer (VCM). A final step, called "polymerization," converts the monomer into vinyl polymer, a fine-grained, white powder or resin known as polyvinyl chloride (PVC), or simply "vinyl."



Vinyl resin, however, is still one step away from being a usable material: it must be combined with selected chemical additives and modifiers to achieve the various properties desired in vinyl end-products. Once these are added, the resulting material -- vinyl compound -- can be converted into an almost limitless range of applications. (View the above diagram of the vinyl production process.)



This versatility is yet another reason why vinyl claims such a large share of the plastics market. It is the only plastic that can be made thin and flexible enough for wallcoverings, yet rigid and tough enough for siding on buildings. Depending on the additives and modifiers used, vinyl compound can be used indoors or outside, be crystal clear or opaque, and matched to virtually any color in the rainbow."
 
I've read here on Autopia a while back that 303 and Vinylex have the "safest" petroleum distillates. I assume other products (Meguiars, 1z?) have them as well?
 
Quote: I've read here on Autopia a while back that 303 and Vinylex have the "safest" petroleum distillates. I assume other products (Meguiars, 1z?) have them as well?





~One mans opinion / observation~



The way that petroleum distillates are made ‘safe’ (environmentally sound) is to re-distil them. I’ve raised this same question with MikeP of Megs and he states that they re-distil PD before they use them (see also article by MikeP on this subject, on better Car Care)



~ Hope this helps ~

Experience unshared; is knowledge wasted…/



justadumbarchitect * so i question everything*
 
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