Chemical Guys Black Light - Not impressed

B

Burningcoals

New member
I use 105/205 with a DA. I use CG foam hex pads. Black for polishing.

I am always searching for what to use on black cars/bikes after 205 Polish, when the paint is pristine.

Lately I have been using Opti-Seal, and every 2 weeks using Meguairs Ultimate Liquid Wax. This process works to completely eliminate micro swirls and keep them gone under a light.

So last week I tried Menzerna 4500, and saw some micro swirls, then tried Menzerna Top Finish both using red super fine foam pad and black pad and DA with little to no pressure. Trying to glaze and jewel as it would be. I failed, and had to re-do 205, then use Opti-seal. I just cant find anything that doesn't micro swirl after 205.

So this week I decided to try Black Light after 205. Again, red pad, no pressure, lowest speed just enough to cover the surface, wait 15 minutes and use a super fine micro-fiber to remove. Came off easy. But, swirl city.... Again had to strip and re-do with 205, and then just threw on Ultimate Wax, and it looks pristine again.

I would like the deepest possible black shine, should I move to a carnuba? will it be too much on soft clear coats? I think Ultimate Wax works wonders because its super easy to apply and remove with no abrasive.
 
When you say you're seeing swirls after Black Light... are you blaming the product for creating the swirls?

If so, when you say swirls, do you really mean micromarring?


swirls/scratches...
20150725-DSC_5732_zps7opagisu.jpg



micromarring....
20150725-DSC_5733_zps6jwfm33p.jpg




I see no way Black Light could cause swirls. If that is the case, I would put the blame on the microfiber. I suppose it is possible that BL could cause some marring, but if using a no cut pad, I would find it very unlikely.

Before the coating days, we loved Black Light and I don't recall any marring issues with it... even on this super soft Porsche black paint.

20121104-DSC_0028_zps9d4eef5f.jpg
 
zmcgovern45 said:
When you say you're seeing swirls after Black Light... are you blaming the product for creating the swirls?

If so, when you say swirls, do you really mean micromarring?


swirls/scratches...
20150725-DSC_5732_zps7opagisu.jpg



micromarring....
20150725-DSC_5733_zps6jwfm33p.jpg




I see no way Black Light could cause swirls. If that is the case, I would put the blame on the microfiber. I suppose it is possible that BL could cause some marring, but if using a no cut pad, I would find it very unlikely.

Before the coating days, we loved Black Light and I don't recall any marring issues with it... even on this super soft Porsche black paint.

20121104-DSC_0028_zps9d4eef5f.jpg
Click to expand...

Micro Marring would be it. I use a super fine micro-fiber to remove, I make sure its super clean. I also use the same clean black or red finishing foam pad. I am not blaming the pad, or the towel due to both of them working great time and time again with other products. I use the same technic to apply black light as I do Ultimate Wax, using a super fine foam pad with lowest speed and no pressure just to evenly coat. When I remove the product I check again under a light to see if the surface has any micro-marring. Unfortunately, on the soft clear I am working with, Menzerna 4500, Menzerna Top Finish, and Black Light are leaving a micro-marring surface. Maybe apply Black Light by hand instead of a DA?
 
What vehicle and paint code is it?

If you weren't seeing marring with M205 (you mentioned using 105/205 previously) then I find it very odd that you are seeing marring with SF4500 and Black Light.

For SF4500, consider trying a firmer pad such as a Rupes Yellow or Rupes White pad. That tends to help the abrasives break down and finish even better... don't use much product, just a few small dots (no need to prime/season the pad).

I always used a Lake Country Blue Fine Finishing Pad when applying Black Light and would use speed 2-2.5 on a porter cable with no added pressure.

An ultra plush towel was always my go to for removing the residue.
 
My question is why are you using ultimate liquid wax every 2 weeks? It's a sealant and will last a few months. If anything top it off with their ultimate quik wax/D156 or your favorite spray wax.

Ronkh said:
but listen to what Zach says.
Click to expand...

Agreed.
 
I agree with Zach, 205 is notorious for cause micromarring especially in high concentrations. I use 4500 to jewel, it literally has no corrective power at all. I personally say drop the 205 an try something else like 2500 or 3000 of menz. I actually use 205 as a cutter for extreme jobs (Assuming you have a large throw machine).

Imo ~ 2500 has ALWAYS been my fail safe to combat micromarring, just watch your pad selection as far as aggressiveness, don't use anything lower then orange (Assuming your using the hex logic).
 
I have used Blacklight on almost all my details for the past 5 years and really love the stuff. It's probably one of my favorite products that I have. I have never had an issue with any swirls and have used it with Porter Cable and Flex both. If it caused any swirls I would check the pad for some type of grit. Blacklight should not have enough cut to cause swirls. I've used it on white, red, blue, and gold pads and it always leaves a very slick finish on all colors of paint. I usually do the majority of a vehicle before I take it off and then top it with a LSP wax or sealant.
 
OK, I have had more time to play with products. Including poorboys Black Hole and Natty's Blue Wax

I liked Black Hole more then Black Light because of its filler properties. I am trying to avoid actually polishing for maintenance. Rather I prefer to use fillers if I can. If I have to I use 205 with a black pad hex pad, and its amazing results, under LED ZERO micro marring.

Question was why use Ultimate Wax every 2 weeks when it is a sealant? Because it has amazing filler properties and will make a micro-marred surface pristine again, not to mention its oily and goes on and off with ease, so far its my favorite product for maintenance.

My pads are washed prior to use, they are pristine or I open a new pad, I don't re-use any towels unless washed. Again. I don't let a detail go out the door without using my 1000 Luman LED to check the surface, this forces me to use different products to achieve different results.

I will play with black light a bit more, but I used 205 to cut the swirls/micro marring out and it works wonders for that on a finishing pad. This week alone I used 205 on several black vehicles including black Tundra and black bikes, always a consistent result, zero visible micro-marring or swirls under LED, even after removal of the product and ready for seal. I don't use much pressure at all and its a very short process. I remove the product, then seal, then wax if desired.

I was trying to introduce another phase after I have the surface pristine. Like a glaze, black light, then jewel, Menzerna 4500, Top Finish.

It could be that using my super LED where others are not?

Feedback on the Poorboys black hole and Natty's blue.

I liked black hole, it can take a micro-marred surface and make them disappear. However, applying Natty's Blue kind of makes it worse, I would say a slight addition of micro-marring applying the wax.

I am also going to say this, just about anything can micro-marr any surface, any pad, or product can do this, especially on soft clear coats which seems to be the norm, you may think you have nailed it, then check it under the LED and very slight micro-marring can be seen. In the case of poorboys black hole, if you use Natty's you can go from visibly perfect under LED to slight micro-marring, I am guessing its removing some of the black hole that has filled the micro-marrs, I apply Natty's with NO pressure, and using a super fine red hex pad, on the lowest speed, just for coverage, let it dry and wipe using a super fine microfiber.

I am still learning but, really, are all you guys using an LED? Seems like there is something I do wrong, I use HEX pads on everything yellow, orange, blue, black and red. They are always cleaned and washed. I use only the best micro-fiber and super soft micro-fibers for removing product. I wash all my pads and micro-fibers after use, and have several new pads and micro-fibers on stand by. I never apply lots of pressure to my surface, I have my own detail bay (converted garage)

So far on my black bikes, 205, Optiseal seems to be the bomb. Or 205, Ultimate Wax. Just cant be beat under the LED test. And yes I remove 205, and then seal, or wax. I have a lot of Black Light, Menzerna 4500 and Black Hole on hand... I didn't use any of these on my black details over the last few days, just 105, 205, Optiseal, OptiWax, or Ultimate Wax was required. I would like to work these products into my routine.
 
The Driver said:
I agree with Zach, 205 is notorious for cause micromarring especially in high concentrations. I use 4500 to jewel, it literally has no corrective power at all. I personally say drop the 205 an try something else like 2500 or 3000 of menz. I actually use 205 as a cutter for extreme jobs (Assuming you have a large throw machine).

Imo ~ 2500 has ALWAYS been my fail safe to combat micromarring, just watch your pad selection as far as aggressiveness, don't use anything lower then orange (Assuming your using the hex logic).
Click to expand...

This confuses me, 205 is not that great at cutting, 105 is. Yellow Hex and 105 is da bomb, 205 if your surface is pretty good, already cut, works great! I am not sure I see a reason to cut it out as its giving me perfect results. However I get what everyone is saying, and it seems people are suggesting move to a intermediate polish like 2500, so I will order some and check that out.
 
Thanks, I will take pics and detail my black Harley this weekend, and I will use black light again with a blue hex pad, and take pics at every stage and post it up.
 
zmcgovern45 said:
What vehicle and paint code is it?

If you weren't seeing marring with M205 (you mentioned using 105/205 previously) then I find it very odd that you are seeing marring with SF4500 and Black Light.

For SF4500, consider trying a firmer pad such as a Rupes Yellow or Rupes White pad. That tends to help the abrasives break down and finish even better... don't use much product, just a few small dots (no need to prime/season the pad).

I always used a Lake Country Blue Fine Finishing Pad when applying Black Light and would use speed 2-2.5 on a porter cable with no added pressure.

An ultra plush towel was always my go to for removing the residue.
Click to expand...

I have seen SF4500 micro mar paint before. It was actually on my Saleen (personal car) with a red hydrotech and SF4500. The paint on this car is so soft you can scratch it with a fingernail. At the time Todd Helm suggested to me that you actually have to use a more aggressive pad for SF4500 for it to work properly. So I stepped up from the red hydrotech to a white hybrid pad and the marring went away.
 
Are you stripping the paint to inspect it after 205? 205 has a lot of durable oils that may be masking the micro marring. Sf4500 is oil rich too, but I find they are not as durable.

Fwiw, I've used 205 and a MF pad to corrective moderately hard VW paint. It definitely has correction power.
 
Audios S6 said:
Are you stripping the paint to inspect it after 205? 205 has a lot of durable oils that may be masking the micro marring. Sf4500 is oil rich too, but I find they are not as durable.

Fwiw, I've used 205 and a MF pad to corrective moderately hard VW paint. It definitely has correction power.
Click to expand...

I agree 205 has cutting ability, yes I remove the product after use before applying anything else, and I use my LED to make sure that the fillers in 205 wasn't masking the micro-marring. I guess my point is, if I don't use black light and just go to LSP the paint really comes out looking nice.
 
XxBoostinxX said:
I have seen SF4500 micro mar paint before. It was actually on my Saleen (personal car) with a red hydrotech and SF4500. The paint on this car is so soft you can scratch it with a fingernail. At the time Todd Helm suggested to me that you actually have to use a more aggressive pad for SF4500 for it to work properly. So I stepped up from the red hydrotech to a white hybrid pad and the marring went away.
Click to expand...

Thanks, this seems to be consistent feedback, I will try a more aggressive pad. Also what is your go to detail products? cut/polish/lsp? Curious, since you are used to soft cleared paint on your black saleen.
 
Burningcoals said:
Thanks, this seems to be consistent feedback, I will try a more aggressive pad. Also what is your go to detail products? cut/polish/lsp? Curious, since you are used to soft cleared paint on your black saleen.
Click to expand...

Don't go too aggressive on the pad. Just a light polishing pad will be enough.

The last time I really corrected the paint (2 years ago) I used FG400 and SF4500. Then I used OC 2.0 as my LSP. Since then I re-polished in December with Rupes white polish (diamond I think?) and applied Pinnacle Black Label Paint Coating.

Very rarely do I ever cut this paint. Even being a semi-daily driver, I keep the paint in excellent condition. I try to use good wash techniques. It hardly ever gets waterless washed unless it is just too cold out. The less I touch it the better
 
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