Black car with car wash scratches - help!

S

shumax

New member
So, I admit laziness. Used a touch car wash for a year on my 2019 Explorer Sport. Been busy, so it’s what I turned to. Ugh

The marring and scratches got to be too much. I took my PC DA with a yellow pad and Sonus Retore? It barely did a thing. See photos. I made two passes and moved to an orange pad and the enhance from Sonus. No better at all. Holy cow!

I have met my match. These are all over the car. What do I use to get this knocked down? It does not need to be perfect as it is a DD.

Thanks!
 
Time to find a more powerful polisher like the new Griot`s Garage G9 or the redesigned Boss G15. Expensive when you factor in new pads to use with them.
If you get the less expensive G9, buy the 5" backing plate and pads to fit that. It will be easier to use as a hobbyist. The more expensive G15 comes with a 5" backing plate already.

Griot`s Garage makes Boss compounds and polishes that professionals use that work well when paired with those machines.

You are finding out that the Porter-Cable DA is better than doing polishing by hand, but those deep scratches or swirls are more than it can handle.
You also did not mention what size diameter pad you are using. I use 4" pads with my DA, but it takes FOREVER to do a vehicle, and like you, I think I can make my vehicle to look like those in this forum, only to be "disappointed" once I get it under decent lighting and see the REAL results.
 
shumax said:
So, I admit laziness. Used a touch car wash for a year on my 2019 Explorer Sport. Been busy, so it’s what I turned to. Ugh

The marring and scratches got to be too much. I took my PC DA with a yellow pad and Sonus Retore? It barely did a thing. See photos. I made two passes and moved to an orange pad and the enhance from Sonus. No better at all. Holy cow!

I have met my match. These are all over the car. What do I use to get this knocked down? It does not need to be perfect as it is a DD.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Shumax --
How much experience in years, do you have with the Porter Cable machine on paintwork?

What was the process you used on your Explorer?

What speed, how many passes, etc.. ?

What size is the Backing Plate and what size are the pads?

How much downward pressure did you put on the machine when you were trying to correct it ?

How many pads do you have, Brand of pad, what kind of pad, what color is it?

I looked up your product - is this it ?? --

""Sonus SFX-1 Restore Polish 8 oz.
Premium paint restoration car polish:
Removes paint scratches, heavy swirl marks and oxidation.
Engineered to work with the Porter Cable 7424 XP Car Polisher.
Easy to use and clear coat safe!""

Dan F
 
Honestly, if you are inclined to keep running the car through the car wash, I would polish the vehicle with Carpro Essence and throw a coating on it. Wash, rinse, and repeat every year and a half. Carpro Essence does quite a nice job of filling a panel.
 
Thanks for the quick replies, all. Let me answer some of these questions:

I`ve been detailing cars for 20+ years. I`ve been using the DA for 15. I was running the DA between speeds 5-6 with a yellow pad from Chemical Guys and the Sonus SFX1 polish; followed by an orange pad and Sonus SFX2. Pressure? Enough to generate too much heat to the point my backing plate, with hook/loop, failed. :( I know - that`s too much pressure. :) Backing plate is 6" and the Pads are 7". I took one pass that includes time going horizontal and vertically across the panel. I took a second pass on an area and saw no real difference, so I didn`t continue that on the rest of the panels - why invest the time?

I have no plans to continue at that car wash. I sent them the photos and, while polite about it, I will be going elsewhere. Our local gas station has a touchless option, but no monthly club, which I like as I was taking it through the old one once a week. I am trying to get them to consider the same so I can use it. I use it on my wifes car and, while it doesn`t always get it 100% clean, it sure as heck doesn`t scratch the car to hell and back, either!

My challenge? 20 years ago, I didn`t have a family. I do now and I work 65+ hours a week. My time is limited for car detailing now, so I`m relegated to quick washes and then I bring it home and use a product like F11 to put a nice shine on it. I then buff everything out 1-2 times year when I do make the time for it. Until my kids are through school? It`s likely going to be that way.

I did some research and I purchased Meguiars Cut 105. I plant to try that, along with the yellow pad and my new 6" backing plate that`s coming. Any other suggestions on a good pad? I just bought that pad as it reviewed well for cutting. Ugh.

I am going to try and upload photos so you all can vomit! :)

Thanks again,
Shumax
 
IMG_4063.jpg
60743613494__A6B0038E-FB11-4573-BC76-C76DCC9F8766.jpg

The photo, directly above, is after one pass - as described above. Yikes.
60743885130__352BE115-E736-4A4C-93FF-43B4071E6DEE.jpg

The photo above, is the same as the one above it, but BEFORE I did anything to it.
60743616871__F0337E7E-F242-46AE-89F7-B5D40131067B.jpg

This is the SFX1
60744247636__1CA42BD9-A676-406D-87E8-2F1FD0BAF575.jpg

This area had one pass - like outlined above.
IMG_4069.jpg

Looks good from a distance :)
IMG_4068.jpg


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TheMeanGreen said:
Honestly, if you are inclined to keep running the car through the car wash, I would polish the vehicle with Carpro Essence and throw a coating on it. Wash, rinse, and repeat every year and a half. Carpro Essence does quite a nice job of filling a panel.
Click to expand...

I`m not familiar with this product - shows that I`ve been out of the game for a while. I did some brief reading about it. Am I to understand it would FILL those scratches and leave a smooth surface? Would that wash out at the car wash? It seems like this might be what F11 is "famed" to do. Don`t get me wrong - not a huge fan of these glory "sprays," but I admit F11 does a nice job for a quick shine. Same thing with Torque Detail. Anyway, I digress.... :)
 
Backing plate is 6" and the Pads are 7".
Click to expand...

That is a BIG part of the problem right there. As mentioned previously a 5" backing plate and appropriate pads are necessary for just about any DA, especially an older Porter Cable. A better machine so equipped would do a much better job but would get into your pocket.
 
I have 5” pads I can use. Need to find a backing plate that’s smaller tho...


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Definitely need to use the smaller pads for heavy correction but a new machine would also speed up the process.

Those scratches are pretty severe from a drive thru wash. Well beyond just marring the finish.
 
shumax said:
I`m not familiar with this product - shows that I`ve been out of the game for a while. I did some brief reading about it. Am I to understand it would FILL those scratches and leave a smooth surface? Would that wash out at the car wash? It seems like this might be what F11 is "famed" to do. Don`t get me wrong - not a huge fan of these glory "sprays," but I admit F11 does a nice job for a quick shine. Same thing with Torque Detail. Anyway, I digress.... :)
Click to expand...

Carpro Essence is a durable glaze that is meant to be the final step before coating application. Essence really is in a league of its own regarding filling abilities and being able to live underneath a coating; it`s not very similar to F11. Yes they both fill, but Essence is also a polish, a durable glaze, and a primer for a coating, and minimizes the need for a final prep wipe before coating application, prep wipes can towel marring because they aren`t super slick. Essence really needs something more durable on top of it take make it last, I question how well Wolfgang`s new Ceramic Spray Coating will play with Essence. In the end, it depends on you though.
 
shumax said:
Thanks for the quick replies, all. Let me answer some of these questions:

I`ve been detailing cars for 20+ years. I`ve been using the DA for 15. I was running the DA between speeds 5-6 with a yellow pad from Chemical Guys and the Sonus SFX1 polish; followed by an orange pad and Sonus SFX2. Pressure? Enough to generate too much heat to the point my backing plate, with hook/loop, failed. :( I know - that`s too much pressure. :) Backing plate is 6" and the Pads are 7". I took one pass that includes time going horizontal and vertically across the panel. I took a second pass on an area and saw no real difference, so I didn`t continue that on the rest of the panels - why invest the time?

I have no plans to continue at that car wash. I sent them the photos and, while polite about it, I will be going elsewhere. Our local gas station has a touchless option, but no monthly club, which I like as I was taking it through the old one once a week. I am trying to get them to consider the same so I can use it. I use it on my wifes car and, while it doesn`t always get it 100% clean, it sure as heck doesn`t scratch the car to hell and back, either!

My challenge? 20 years ago, I didn`t have a family. I do now and I work 65+ hours a week. My time is limited for car detailing now, so I`m relegated to quick washes and then I bring it home and use a product like F11 to put a nice shine on it. I then buff everything out 1-2 times year when I do make the time for it. Until my kids are through school? It`s likely going to be that way.

I did some research and I purchased Meguiars Cut 105. I plant to try that, along with the yellow pad and my new 6" backing plate that`s coming. Any other suggestions on a good pad? I just bought that pad as it reviewed well for cutting. Ugh.

I am going to try and upload photos so you all can vomit! :)

Thanks again,
Shumax
Click to expand...

Your time sounds like it is a very limited commodity. If I were you, I would look into a coating that has a filling ability but can also be layered upon itself, that way I can minimize polishing and reduce trips to the swirl-o-matic due to the self cleaning properties of the coating. If I had that limited amount of time and was running my black vehicle through a swirl-o-matic, I would also forget about putting in effort to keep it looking like a seven out of ten. I`d probably just buy a white vehicle and keep it looking shiny and glossy, that way all the swirl marks are hidden by the blinding effect that white has in the sun. Honestly, my best advice is to keep the vehicle looking shiny and glossy. May be not waste the time that you could be investing in the family or self improvement, 65+ hours a week is a lot and it will take its toll. I know detailing is therapy for many, but when time is super limited it seems like a burden to upkeep a black vehicle that is being visibly damaged every time it is washed. When the kids leave, you will have more time to play with cars..... Poorboys has a new coating that can be layered at different points in the coatings life span, not sure on durability or longevity as it is rather new, but it definitely has my attention.

** Those photos indicate a good amount of time needed to address the damage, your time sounds too valuable to be chasing those scratches out, at the present time. But if you want to, lower machine speed to 3-4, watch the attached video regarding M105. Use a body solvent such as Rustoleum Grease & Wax Remover, Prep-All, or Duplicolor Grease & Wax Remover in the plastic (black) bottle, to remove the oils left behind from M105. Slow arm speed, and two section (one up, one down) passes at a time, with checking results in between every two polishing sets. Ethos Ceramic Wax Pro fills well if you don`t want to go the route of a coating and is surprisingly durable, it would allow you your time for decompressing whilst also negating the time deficit that you have.
 
shumax said:
I have 5” pads I can use. Need to find a backing plate that’s smaller tho...


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Click to expand...

Shumax,
Thank you for your reply and pics..
That is a beautiful SUV !

Absolutely, correction is always about Pad Rotation.. Your machine rotates the pad randomly; you need as much of it as possible..
A smaller backing plate (5") and similar sized pads will help your machine to rotate more..

I have a lot of years using Meguiars M105 compound.. You would be better off using Meguiars 101 Foam-Cut Compound which is the same thing formulated for foam pads..

You need to know that this product M-101 and M105 is an aggressive compound, can remove clear coat quickly, and will require another polish to bring out the most gloss and clarity..

It in my decade+ experience using this product, it will want to dry up quickly and be very unhappy, unless you spray the pad with some additional moisture, so that it can work the product longer... It will if kept just moist enough to not dry out, correct and finish pretty nice, but you have to be very observant, etc..

There are other products out there today, that I see people on this forum use, that are working as good or better and much easier to manage..
I refer to the Griot`s line of products - Boss Correcting Cream - https://www.autopia-carcare.com/griots-boss-correcting-cream.html#.XoYPEmOpH3g
and Boss Perfecting Cream - https://www.autopia-carcare.com/griots-boss-perfecting-cream.html#.XoYPUWOpH3g

I only use Lake Country pads for decades and have had great results from them.. There are other pad manufacturers, such as Buff and Shine, that are supposed to be good.. All are here at the Autopia Store..

You will need a lot of pads, both correction pads and polishing pads, to do this if you want it to be really glossy and clear - the rolling mirror - look.
It will take perhaps 10+ hours or more to do whole thing..

You will need a good pad cleaner to clean the pads, so you can dry them out thoroughly, and re use them again..
I have decades + experience with this one and it has always worked quickly, easy to rinse out, and has never done anything negative to the pads or the work they do --- https://www.autopia-carcare.com/snappy-clean-powder.html#.XoYReGOpH3g One envelope is good for 3-4 gallons in a 5-gallon bucket of water, so you need several envelopes..

Yes, there have been a lot of much better random orbitals built since the Porter Cable Sander came out..
They are all supposed to be much more efficient, etc., but they also have a much higher cost..
You have to figure out what is best for you, and what you want the results to be..

I have Detailed much more scratched Jet Black paintwork than your vehicle has.. These vehicles were so neglected that this Jet Black paint had turned a dull, black-gray color.. You are so far ahead of that condition.. It will be much easier, but it will take a long time, so you have to figure out your time allowance, etc., and decide on what you want to do about products, machine, etc...

Good luck ! We are here to help !
Dan F
 
Try different pad / polish combinations... there are no `best` pads and each will interact with certain types of paint/clearcoat differently.
 
Great feedback today. Thank you. Let me give some additional color.

This is a Company vehicle. I have to drive it 4-5 years, so I try and keep it as nice as I can out of my own desire, really. But, I`m not spending 12 hours buffing it. :) It`s also the reason I take it to a car wash - I get an allowance each month and that car wash hit that figure, on a monthly program, so I could take it as many times as I like. Given the results, I think I know how many times I SHOULD have taken it - none. Paying a pro? Great idea; I considered it! But, i have to pay for that out of my pocket. Given it`s a Company vehicle? I`m not doing that.

In this time with Covid? I have more time on my hands. So, I can spend time on a weekend in the heated garage working on it. So, I`m willing to engage and do so. Long term? Ehh. Probably not more than I described.

I did look and I was wrong. My backing plate is 5". So I was good there; though, i just bought a 6". So, I`m going to need to get another 5", which I did buy today, locally. So, I`m good there. I do also have a wool pad that I located - never opened. I think that could help. I agree with lowering the speed and letting the buffer spin. That`s important. I`m not willing to buy a new machine, so I`ll get what I can out of what I have - sans additional pads and product. Else that? I wouldn`t get enough use from a new machine.

I would say this - I`m not looking for this to be 100%. If it`s....50% now? I`m happy with 85%. Even 80%. I just think what`s there is terrible. I`ve not seen paint that bad on any of my vehicles...ever.

As it stands, I would like to take two approaches: First, given I have time due to Covid, I would like to get the pad and product correct and correct it as best that I can. From there? I`m then looking into the products mentioned above that seem to fill and then seal on top of that. That seems like a good long term solution. That and not using that car wash again.

Thanks again, all!
 
I have a 2016 mustang in shadow black so similar paint. I got great correction with griots Correcting cream and an orange pad.

Mine was maybe not as rough as yours so maybe their fast correcting cream.

Note: I have a long throw and mini polisher with a 12mm through so maybe that helped be more aggresive.


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As everyone suggested, the 5`` pads are a must. But also on a PC, use Lake Country Thin pads, and stop buying cheap local pads. get a six pack from Autopia/Autogeek. 4 orange and 2 white. And order some 3D one. It works as a compound and polish depending on your pads.
 
shumax- Welcome to Autopia!

I`d rethink using a wool pad on your PC.

- It shouldn`t be necessary for correcting Ford clear
- Unless you use the right wool pad, you`ll merely instill new/additional marring, and it might be the kind that`s hard(er) to correct

If I had to do that job with a PC (which TBH, I simply would not do; Life`s too short to spend all those hours trying for >50% better) I`d *ABSOLUTELY* do it with a 4" plate/pad combo and I`d do the aggressive work with a MF Cutting Disk (NOT a foam or wool pad) and a compound like Meguiar`s M101. Then I`d follow up with a 4" foam polishing pad and some polish that`s sufficiently aggressive to remove the micro(?)-marring that the M101 will leave behind.

I`ve done all sorts of vehicles that way and while it took *FOREVER* to get remotely significant results from the PC, that will indeed do the job.

Did I mention that it`ll take many hours? ;) Sorry, couldn`t resist...

EDIT: and I`d get, oh...guessing...three times as many pads of each kind as you think you could possibly need. Using a clean pad is simply essential as once they get loaded up with used product and cut-off clear they become basically ineffective, and cleaning them on-the-fly is a hassle, although the MF disks clean up pretty well with compressed air (from a compressor, not the little dusting cans).

FWIW, I spend more time cleaning my pads and inspecting my work than I do on the actual polishing (but then I`m no longer using a PC either).
 
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