Best wax

Best wax or Sealant:
Is there a best? In my opinion- No! While its true many of the chemicals used in the formulation of car care products are the same (or at least very similar) Having used a variety of different products, at various cost levels, I can tell one from another and field testing shows that not all have the durability either, some simply out perform others in many categories and react differently when applied to different paint types, paint hardness, colour, or varied paint surface conditions.

Ultimately the best wax or sealant will prove to be the one that best meets its user's objectives. If a product is not working for you experiment until you find one that?s suitable for your needs.

There is no one product that can produce all of the properties for an optically perfect shine, however; for high surface gloss and surface reflectance-a polymer sealant, which also provides durability. Detailing enthusiasts consider shine as only one attribute of a protective wax or sealant. They are equally concerned with; ease of application, resistance to abrasion, atmospheric contamination and weathering.

a) For depth of shine - Carnauba wax (also provides a sacrificial and easily renewable barrier against airborne contaminants (Swissvax, Zymol, Souveran)

b) For clarity - long term durability and protection apply a polymer sealant (Zaino Z2PRO? + ZFX? Flash Cure Accelerator Additive) to a carefully prepared level, clean paint surface.

c) Optically perfect shine ? apply a optically clear polymer sealant and add a Carnauba wax, a Glaze or
Zaino Z-8? Grand Finale Spray Seal as a last step product (LSP).

d) High heat conditions - a polymer sealant, one that includes a UVR protection (Zaino) and a sacrificial wax (Collinite (actually a polymer/wax) Liquid Insulator Wax (No. 845)

e) Harsh winter ? Klasse All In One (AIO) Klasse Sealant Glaze (SG) x 2, Collinite # 845 Liquid Insulator Wax or # 476s Super Doublecoat Auto Wax x 2. If you apply a final layer of wax without buffing it will provide more protection / durability (especial for vehicle storage purposes).

f) The aesthetics of a vehicle appearance is very subjective to say the least, the only best wax or sealant that really matters is what looks 'best' to you and meets the criteria you set for it.

g) The final result can only be as good as the surface it?s applied to. It really is all dependants upon, process over product; 85% preparation, 5% product suitability, 7% application methodology and the balance is in the ?guy? of the beholder.

The other variables are; a detailer?s knowledge of paint type, experience with a given product and skill level and experience with machine polisher.

An extract from one of a series of in-depth detailing articles ? TOGWT ? Ltd Copyright 2002-2008, all rights reserved. ​
 
My thoughts and four cents on this:

I've used Menzerna, Blackfire, MG's Gold Class, Klasse, several Mothers' stuff, and P21S

Long lasting with wonderful results: Hands down: Menzerna FMJ

Even better (wetness) results (won't last as long): P21S

(but you like waxing your ride, so why bother, get the P21S and fugitaboutit!)
 
You might want to look into clearkote Carnauba Moose Wax and Vanilla Moose Wax-Hand Glaze. I used the Glaze today (not the wax thats tomrrow) mine for the first time :notworthy: still stunned at the results and the smell is yummy with the Vanilla Moose Wax-Hand Glaze. Tommrrow I get to work on my buddy jeep, going to use the wax then, but I have seen it used before and WOW just drool.

Please keep in mind Ive used:

Klasse
FMJ
P21S
NXT
1Z
Megs #26
gold class
Aryclic Jett
and some others cant even think need Sleep

I have done ALOT of testing. and spent 1000's (over 5g) on products testing to find whats "best" for me
 
For my Vette and customer Vettes, I use:

Z2Pro
Z5Pro
Wet Diamond

All excellent products... super slick and deep wet shine.:cornut:

(These are not technically "waxes", they are sealants, which I prefer over wax.)
 
I won't answer which is "best", rather my favorites because there are so many factors into what constitutes best.

I'd say:

1. Blackfire Wet Diamond

2. Wolfgang Deep Gloss Sealant 3.0

3. NXT 2.0
 
There is a lot of dubious marketing techniques and hyperbole when it comes to waxes (for this discussion I am limiting my initial response to carnauba waxes).

You hear a lot of confusing myths...

A) The amount of carnauba in a wax effects the shine, depth, gloss- This is likely not true, and despite my efforts and research with numerous wax manufacturers and formulators they agree that the total amount of carnauba has little to do with the appearance. Most manufactures agree that anything more then 35% of wet volume carnauba is IMPOSSIBLE to apply. For work ability, most waxes are in the 12-17%.

Keep in mind that carnauba wax does little aesthetically for the appearance of anything, gummy bears and medical gel-capsules are encased with the highest grades of carnauba and neither is particularly deep or glossy. What gives carnauba based waxes their depth, warmth, or glow is the combination of oils, solvents, and silicones it is blended with. Carnauba is often the cheapest ingredient in the wax.

B) This wax uses natural white carnauba, the best in the world- There is NO such thing as a natural white carnauba wax, in fact all automotive carnauba wax is #1 Brazilian Yellow Wax. In fact in some of the older waxes that claim to use white or ivory carnauba, the carnauba flake was actually bleached! In the case of our Midnight Sun Carnauba, Batch 24, the flake is micro refined before mixing, which gives it an ivory appearance, and allows for a more complete blend.

C) This wax has so much carnauba that it has to be melted on by hand- Again, this is playing to the fact that the wax magically has some amount of carnauba that isn't even possible. Carnauba has a natural melting temperature of about 170 degrees, so unless you are running a REALLY high fever, or can rub your hands together like Mr. Myagi, you are not going to melt the wax by hand. Waxes then tend to make this claim are 'soft' poured, which separates some of the wax granules from the solvents. When you rub the 'soft' wax together, the friction of your hands mixes the ingredients

D) This wax has polymers in it, it is better, and that is why is cost and arm and a leg- Well that is nice, except for the overlooked fact, that carnauba wax IS a polymer. Think about this play on words, every carnauba wax has polymers in it... Now to be more specific you could say your wax has cross linking polymers in it, similar to a sealants, and this would make more sense. However this is neither a new or novel idea. Meguiar's M26 Hi-Tech Yellow Wax is a phenomenal wax that features synthetic polymers and carnauba wax, and it has been around for at least 15 years (maybe a lot longer?). Our Blackfire Midnight Sun, to my knowledge, was the first popular premium boutique wax to make this claim, and IME, still one of the best.

E) This wax cost 1000 dollars, that is why it looks so good- This plays more on perceived value and perception. A gentleman by the name of Dave KG did a great test, involving waxes that cost between $25 and $2000 dollars by prepping (I think) 7 cars, then applying the various waxes. Enthusiast and professional detailers alike couldn't tell much of a difference between any of them, more so then statistical difference. This isn't to say that the quality of ingredients in the wax doesn't make a difference in the final appearance of the wax, but on a highly polished surface, the differences are subtle, even to the most discriminating professionals.

In the end of the day, there is not going to be best wax, as every individual will have different needs and see things there own way.

I would make some suggestions...

If you don't mind spending a little extra for the extra depth and richness, the Blackfire Midnight Sun is going to give you as much as any wax there is. It is a scientifically advanced wax that will bond as well over sealants as it will on bare paint. This wax was developed by a gentleman who solely developed some other top waxes, and by his research, this is the superior formula.

A less costly, but still great choice is P21s Concours Wax. This is a very easy to use wax that has a great look. In fact this formula has been almost copied and forms the basis for a lot more expensive waxes out there.

The best bang for the buck would be Meguiar's M26 Hi-Tech Yellow Wax. It really looks great on all colors.

Those are my opinions of course, but there is no wrong choice. Find what you like and enjoy it!
 
Todd, I was wondering if you would comment on the popular claim that carnauba contributes to "jetting." For example, one finds the following statements around the net (I have deleted the names of the specific waxes):

'_____ Paste Wax is noticeably "harder". It's harder because we packed in more Carnauba. To maximize the dark, seductive shine that only carnauba can produce, a characteristic called "jetting" within the industry, we pushed the Carnauba content right to the limit.'

'Carnauba car wax is prized for its high jetting factor, an industry term used to describe the paint?s wet look. The higher the jetting factor, the wetter the paint looks. Carnauba has the highest jetting factor among all types of waxes. _____ Carnauba Wax gives your vehicle the full benefit of carnauba?s high jetting factor because the wax isn?t blended with other, less beneficial waxes. You?ll see the difference in your vehicle?s wet shine!'

'Carnauba waxes have what is known in the industry as a "high jetting factor". This is the ability of a product to produce a liquid-like shimmer on the surface. Advertisers have coined the term "wet-look" to describe this phenomenon. While carnauba can create this wet-look, it has been all but impossible to create it with a liquid carnauba wax. There was no way to put enough carnauba in a product to create this effect and still keep the wax a liquid.'

What exactly is jetting, and what is its relation to the presence of carnauba within a given wax.

Thanks,
Al
 
[This wax has polymers in it, it is better, and that is why is cost and arm and a leg- Well that is nice, except for the overlooked fact, that carnauba wax IS a polymer. Think about this play on words, every carnauba wax has polymers in it... Now to be more specific you could say your wax has cross linking polymers in it, similar to a sealants, and this would make more sense.

[...carnauba wax IS a polymer.] Interesting, that's the first time I've heard Carnauba wax described as a polymer
 
TOGWT said:
[This wax has polymers in it, it is better, and that is why is cost and arm and a leg- Well that is nice, except for the overlooked fact, that carnauba wax IS a polymer. Think about this play on words, every carnauba wax has polymers in it... Now to be more specific you could say your wax has cross linking polymers in it, similar to a sealants, and this would make more sense.

[...carnauba wax IS a polymer.] Interesting, that's the first time I've heard Carnauba wax described as a polymer
Click to expand...

From answers.com
Polymers, macromolecules, high polymers, and giant molecules are high-molecular-weight materials composed of repeating subunits. These materials may be organic, inorganic, or organometallic, and synthetic or natural in origin. Polymers are essential materials for almost every industry as adhesives, building materials, paper, cloths, fibers, coatings, plastics, ceramics, concretes, liquid crystals, photoresists, and coatings. They are also major components in soils and plant and animal life. They are important in nutrition, engineering, biology, medicine, computers, space exploration, health, and the environment.

Natural inorganic polymers include diamonds, graphite, sand, asbestos, agates, chert, feldspars, mica, quartz, and talc. Natural organic polymers include polysaccharides (or polycarbohydrates) such as starch and cellulose, nucleic acids, and proteins. Synthetic inorganic polymers include boron nitride, concrete, many high-temperature superconductors, and a number of glasses. Siloxanes or polysiloxanes represent synthetic organometallic polymers. See also Silicone resins.

Synthetic polymers used for structural components weigh considerably less than metals, helping to reduce the consumption of fuel in vehicles and aircraft. They even outperform most metals when measured on a strength-per-weight basis. Polymers have been developed which can also be used for engineering purposes such as gears, bearings, and structural members.
Click to expand...

I guess it would be more accurate to say that parts of carnauba are a polymer, the same as parts of the skin?

The word is used with out juristiciton in the marketing of car care products. Saying your product uses a polymer with out defining it is really pretty general, IMO.
 
akimel said:
Todd, I was wondering if you would comment on the popular claim that carnauba contributes to "jetting." For example, one finds the following statements around the net (I have deleted the names of the specific waxes):

'_____ Paste Wax is noticeably "harder". It's harder because we packed in more Carnauba. To maximize the dark, seductive shine that only carnauba can produce, a characteristic called "jetting" within the industry, we pushed the Carnauba content right to the limit.'

'Carnauba car wax is prized for its high jetting factor, an industry term used to describe the paint?s wet look. The higher the jetting factor, the wetter the paint looks. Carnauba has the highest jetting factor among all types of waxes. _____ Carnauba Wax gives your vehicle the full benefit of carnauba?s high jetting factor because the wax isn?t blended with other, less beneficial waxes. You?ll see the difference in your vehicle?s wet shine!'

'Carnauba waxes have what is known in the industry as a "high jetting factor". This is the ability of a product to produce a liquid-like shimmer on the surface. Advertisers have coined the term "wet-look" to describe this phenomenon. While carnauba can create this wet-look, it has been all but impossible to create it with a liquid carnauba wax. There was no way to put enough carnauba in a product to create this effect and still keep the wax a liquid.'

What exactly is jetting, and what is its relation to the presence of carnauba within a given wax.

Thanks,
Al
Click to expand...

According to numerous dictionaries I have read, Jetting is a verb, adjective, or a noun.

Noun

A stream of liquid, gas, gas, or small solid particles forcefully shooting forth from a nozzle, orifice, etc.
Something that issues in such a stream, as water or gas.
A spout or nozzle for emitting liquid or gas: a gas jet.

Verb (with out object)

To travel by Jet Plane
To move or travel by means o jet propulsion
To be shot forth in a stream.
To move or travel rapidly.

Verb (used with a object)

To transport by jet plane
To shoot forth in a stream;spout
To place by eroding the ground beneath it with a jet of water or of water and compressed air.

Adjective

Of pertaining to, or associated with a jet, jet engine, or jet plane
In the form of or producing a jet or jet propulsion
By means of a jet airplane

As described, it is used, apparently to describe the wet, shimmery look, that only a carnauba wax can provide. I have used this term in the past, but given that it has no real definition, I used it to describe how wet the paint looked.

But lets ask the quesiton, how wet can your paint really look? I mean what is a wet look, and where did that term come from. Most people, as in 99% of the population, will never get to see what a wax looks like on really prepared paint. Even less will see what a wax looks like on perfectly (or as close as theoretically perfect paint as our tools and experience will allow) prepped paint.

Given that most people see paint that is often marred up or hazy in appearance, when they wash car, it magically looks clear and reflective. This is because the surface of the water is more smooth, compared to the scratched paint, and reflects more light. When the water runs off the car, the 'wet look' disappears. Also the depth of the water on the surface can have a significant impact on the reflections in the paint, as a thicker amount of water is going to make the reflects look deeper.

Carnauba waxes, by nature, fill in surface defects, because they leave themselves behind on the surface. This ability to artificially make the paint appear level is going to represent the greatest increase in gloss, or reflectivity.

As my good friend, and wax formulator Dom Colbek explained...

There are only going to be two ways an LSP can enhance a clear coat finish... surface characteristics and depth.

If the surface of the LSP allows for a more microscopically smooth surface (because even glass is pitted when examined under a microscope) and the LSP can fill in the small pores and indents within the clear coat surface (for it will be attacked and pitted by UV light, stones whatever) then it will reflect light better. It may only need a micron to do this. That is why filling agents can work... they fill in a micron deep swirl mark and improve the optics of the surface.

Also, if the LSP is very deep, then it can give more 'depth' to the surface, but it may also dull the reflection due to light having to travel through it. LSPs aren't usually very thick at all, so this tends to be a characteristic of clear coats and permanent coatings that are a lot thicker.
Click to expand...

If the prep work to the paint is perfect, no wax is going to make any significant change to the appearance of the paint. I have never polished any paint to the best of my ability, including polishing paint at the finest level in an attempt to smooth out even microscopic imperfections, and thought ,"Wow that paint looks dry."

When washing the paint after polishing, it is very rare to see any change in the color or surface between the wet side surface and the regular surface. So I guess the best way to increase the jetting factor of paint is to polish it perfectly. Past that, get it as close to perfect as possible, then fill in the micro scratches (that you may not see) with a solid, and enjoy the improved gloss.

By the effect of the opacity of the oils and carnauba itself, it can diffuse light slightly, which can give the appearance of reflections being further away from the surface of the paint.

I did my best to demonstrate this phenomenon when I attempted to measure the depth of reflections in this thread

What is Depth?

So does jetting exist, in the context it is described? Of course, waxes can make paint look wetter, if wetter is defined as glossier or more reflective, maybe more rich. The more perfect the paint the less pronounced the difference.

The oils and wax can slightly alter the way our eyes see the reflections by diffusing the light.

Blackfire Midnight Sun is a super advanced, high content (with in reason, perhaps I should say the amount of carnauba is perfect for the blend of oils and solvents in the wax) carnauba wax that uses the finest refined carnuaba wax and the highest quality ingredients on the market. I would put it up, in any test, against any wax, and it would hold it's own.

It is a cost is no-object, highly researched, and technologically advanced formula. If we can make a better performing wax, at any cost (more or less expensive) then we will, but we will not use hyperbole and mistruths to squeeze more money out of the same formulas.


 
th0001 said:
From answers.com


I guess it would be more accurate to say that parts of carnauba are a polymer, the same as parts of the skin?

The word is used with out juristiciton in the marketing of car care products. Saying your product uses a polymer with out defining it is really pretty general, IMO.
Click to expand...

I will concede that Carnauba is sometimes formulated with a polymer, but it is a natural substance, not a synthetic polymer.

Carnauba in its natural state is un-usable as a car wax, it is sold as a hard solid block (or flakes) so the oils /solvent / beeswax or polymers that are formulated with it play a large role in the usability and performance of the wax. Many people mistakenly assume the term ?pure wax? means that the wax contains nothing but Carnauba wax or Beeswax, this is not so as all waxes are blends of different substances.

Most of the thickeners used in waxes and sealants are polymers. So the marketing people can "honestly" state this in their marketing and put on the label that "this product contains space-age polymers.?
 
IMO Jetting is -

Jetting ? sometimes called optical depth comes from an applied product that is two-dimensional, so that light is reflected from both a high and low source, the light waves are distorted (diffuse reflection) which creates a three dimensional illusion of depth to produce jetting (a rippling effect, the so-called ?wet-look) The oils that are formulated in Carnauba waxes provide gloss, this distorts the light reflectance, giving the surface the ?look? of liquidity, like a mirror in shallow water reflecting a three-dimensional deep colour, in contrast, bees wax, paraffin wax, and some synthetic waxes tend to occlude the surface

The aesthetics of a vehicles appearance is very subjective to say the very least, added to by manufactures marketing claims, its a very grey area, the only best wax or sealant that really matters is what looks 'best' to you

In the final analysis it all come down to; 85% preparation, 5% product, 7% application methodology and the balance is in the ?guy? of the beholder
 
TOGWT said:
I will concede that Carnauba is sometimes formulated with a polymer, but it is a natural substance, not a synthetic polymer.

Carnauba in its natural state is un-usable as a car wax, it is sold as a hard solid block (or flakes) so the oils /solvent / beeswax or polymers that are formulated with it play a large role in the usability and performance of the wax. Many people mistakenly assume the term ?pure wax? means that the wax contains nothing but Carnauba wax or Beeswax, this is not so as all waxes are blends of different substances.

Most of the thickeners used in waxes and sealants are polymers. So the marketing people can "honestly" state this in their marketing and put on the label that "this product contains space-age polymers.?
Click to expand...

We will agree to disagree :D. A polymer doesn't have to be synthetic to be a polymer, it simply has to be linked monomer. So you are not really conceding anything IMO, you are confusing the term polymer with the synethic polymer. Skin, to my understanding, is a polymer, the same the components that make up natural carnauba wax.

I am not advocating that wax manufactures, including our own Blackfire, define the exact type of polymers, I am only suggesting that people read between the lines and understand the difference.
 
A forum moderator is always correct, after forty odd years as a chemical Engineer I often get confused, :smile:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top