Wetsanding and Polishing after Painting

L

LeadingEdgeDetail

New member
Hey guys,



Just wondering, what is this stage after painting techically called?



I have a friend that restores and modifies older cars, mostly 50's, currently working on a '55 Buick Custom? and he's doing a complete rotissarie resto... Got everything painted but he has never found someone that can finish off a paint job perfectly...



Luckily I had told him months ago that I'm a proficient wetsand and polisher, so he gave me a ring and now I got the job... But I'm still wondering how I can turn this into my specialty considering the $$$ involved with a custom paintjob on a hotrod can easily reach $20k... And the wetsanding and polishing is what really makes a great paintjob stand out from the rest.



Here are a few pics I took with my camera phone (really bad quality, and I think I just finished compounding and not polishing at this point):



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I have 5 hours into the hood alone which is done, trunklid is done, and I've sanded one of the doors so far... Lots left to go!!



What do you guys think a good $$$ amount is for a job like this? Overall I think I will have ~30 hours into wetsanding and polishing.



Thanks for any info or tips! I may be good but I'm always learning!
 
not to sound like an *** here, but if your at that level of detailing where someone is gonna trust you finishing a $20 grand restoration, then you should know exactly what is called and know exactly what to charge! and one more thing you did this work but yet when you took the photos you didn't know if you were compounding or polishing at this point?
 
Sorry if I come across as new, this is the first time I have posted on Autopia in more than 2 years, so I don't remember any of our regulars, and nobody around here will recognize me... Thus the "new here" tone to my post.



Also I was at work at the time (I don't detail fulltime) so I had a limited amount of time!



Now, I have been detailing for 9 years now, earning money, and I am well practiced at the physical portion of detailing, the buffing, sanding, cleaning, masking, as well as the finer points like knowing what to look for when starting, problem areas, and diligence to do things the RIGHT way the first time, with absolutely no cutting of corners.



This leads me into the thought of "I want to work on a car that I can truly take pride and do the best damn job I am capable of".



Which will be solved by myself working on freshly painted hotrods, restorations, or even just really nice cars that need a full color sanding of the clear coat. Removal of all orange peel. Who deoesn't want that?



Thing is I'm capable of doing it through practice, but I've never done it as a "professional", due to me being 24 I come across as "The kid that actually knows what he's doing"... Which I hope to turn into a professional soon!



Thats why I'm here... Turning from the kid with skill into an actual professional colorsander. I guess thats the word I'm looking for... the stage after paint would be colorsanding and compounding...



I absolutely have the time of my life when I'm wetsanding beautiful paint and then compounding it to an absolute brilliant mirror like shine, that is a joy that not everyone gets. And the fact that I get paid $40/h to do it is just icing on the cake!!!



Now, what is my next step?



Schooling ?



Taking what? I'm wondering if I should become a painter as well, or should I concentrate on the after-paint process, ? There are lots of painters out there... and painting well is not hard...



As you can see I'm ready for a career change, but its hard to give up $20/h salary...
 
bufferbarry said:
not to sound like an *** here, but if your at that level of detailing where someone is gonna trust you finishing a $20 grand restoration, then you should know exactly what is called and know exactly what to charge! and one more thing you did this work but yet when you took the photos you didn't know if you were compounding or polishing at this point?
Click to expand...



Heh, also, I was serious when I said $20k paintjob, its more of a $50-$130k restoration... Very very nice cars.



Barrett Jackson quality for sure.



I really don't remember when I took the pictures, it was a 20 second idea to use my camera on my cellphone because I always bring my 7.1mp camera with me but forgot it this time like a *******!



Had to be out of the house at 6:30am to make it there for 8:00am... 1.5 hour drive each way :(



Thats why I feel the $40 an hour is a bit on the low side...
 
bufferbarry said:
not to sound like an *** here, but if your at that level of detailing where someone is gonna trust you finishing a $20 grand restoration, then you should know exactly what is called and know exactly what to charge! and one more thing you did this work but yet when you took the photos you didn't know if you were compounding or polishing at this point?
Click to expand...



Maybe you shouldn't be posting at all if you aren't going to be constructive.
 
Nice project! Well, you should charge by the hour.



Here's one i painted/polished a while ago (39 Pontiac):

Pbs.jpg


p30s.jpg


p29s.jpg


p24s.jpg


PontiacLD2s.jpg




The wetsanding/polishing took over 40 hours. 4 coats of a high solids polyurethane

clear, sanded 1000 - 1500 - 2000. This is clear is "soft" by any standard...
 
bufferbarry has a very good point.



One burn through and that can mean thousands of dollars (from your pocket).



Whether it's 20k job or 50k/100k, it's impossible to tell from those pics.
 
Taking what? I'm wondering if I should become a painter as well, or should I concentrate on the after-paint process, ? There are lots of painters out there... and painting well is not hard...
Click to expand...



Lol! Are you sure about that?



The actual painting - pulling the trigger of your Sata/Iwata - is easy.

Just pour the paint into the cup and blast away! And Bam! dead flat

gun finish in just 1 pass! No sanding. No buffing. Just pull the trigger!

The 100's hours of "preping" and the thousands of dollars in materials

dont matter! Clear coat what? Temperature what? 80 grit sand scratches

no problemo! Sealer what? Just point and shoot. Easy.



Well, actually it isn't brain surgery. If you take the time (lots) to research

and practice, you can produce a killer paint job.



Here's what a dedicated "newbie" can do:

View topic - The Paint is on!



And you really want to be a painter, get training.
 
Flashtime,



really enjoy your work. I check out your stuff on Autobody101... I go back and forth between wanting to paint and not wanting to deal with the hassle of finding a booth somewhere...



That Pontiac is pretty... no substitute for a glass out, trim off all over job.
 
Denzil said:
Maybe you shouldn't be posting at all if you aren't going to be constructive.
Click to expand...



Being constructive was not Barry's point...... the point was and is that this guy is not up to speed as far as the business of what he is doing. If he does go thru the clear can he pay for that mistake??? also nine years of experience starting @ sixteen years old ??? I have met only ONE person in my career that is that age with the goods and that is Dave from Steetdreams(dsms).



Asking for advice is not wrong, that is what this site is for but wetsanding whole cars to a show level is not something "you just do" as in in "kids do not try this at home" almost all body shops get this wrong(I have fixed countless cars one recently).



I think Barry was driving home the point that if you do not know the steps involved or what to charge for the work, you should research this info BEFORE you start the work.
 
i was in no means trying to belittle this guy. what i was trying say really was that on a $20,000 paint job one mistake is costly. Depending on the color it would have to be resprayed by the same person. now my next point is that, when wet sanding your litterly shaving down paint. now if it clear coat your messing with danger. now if its single stage your walking on fire. truely people seeing some of pro's wetsanding to acheive a flawless finish or to repair a scratch and so and so. ill be the first to admit i have gone threw clear and made that mistake already. i live and learn from my mistakes. i have also sanded cars down flat and passed with no ooops, but im telling you this 20,000 grand paint job is no laughing matter. every move had to made precisly. you can't push to hard to risk tracers or burn threws. its just something that isn't for the inexsperianced. i don't this the origanal posters exsperiance, but he was simply asking what to charge and what the process is called! now what im getting at is if has to ask that? is he capable of performing the job? by no means am i trying to come off harsh im just trying to help someone prevent a big mistake if not fully qualified. sorry if i came of wrong
 
Hey Guys,



I always seem to forget this forum is here on my busy daily travels, besides, posting in this forum should be informative, which I hope mine are as informative to on-lookers as your guy's posts are.



Now, keep in mind its hard to portray your thoughts on here without writing a novel, I'll portray as much as I can.



When I say I have been detailing hardcore for 9 years, I've actually been doing it for over 15 years.



I'm one of the lucky ones that has grown up with cars, auto-body, bondo, paint, primer, sandpaper, and all of the great things in life since I was a wee toddler. My dad started me in this stuff as soon as I knew what a car was... So by 8 or 9 I was already painting peices, sanding peices, primering, blocksanding, you know.



By 15 I was really getting into cars so I decided I would make $$$ the fastest and easiest way I knew, with the least risk.... Cleaning cars, claybarring, and applying wax. Did this starting at 14 or 15. I have an older brother that was into the VW Scene with some very nice cars, so I got to hang out and everyone noticed I cleaned cars really well...



As well, my dad had a Makita Polisher since before I can remember, and he taught me how to use it *properly* by the time I was 9 or 10 years old... Polishing 50's cars mostly, as well as his fully restored '31 Chev Panel Van.



Yadda Yadda, this isn't about detailing, its about the process after a car is painted, reason I am asking the official term :)



As soon as I turned 16 I had a car, of course. 1997 VW Golf. Black. Beautiful car, and after a few years I learned how to polish it about 50%..



I have done some painting of my own, here are a couple pics of my...fourth....sixth? car, I painted this almost 5 years ago, so I was 18 or 19 then...





FOR THE RECORD: I knew I was not doing this as well as I could have, it was my daily driver so I had to borrow my dad's car while I did it. I also worked full-time and detailed part-time while I was doing this. So that is why I used the army colors as my initial primer.



Ok, here is the car when I bought it:

DSC07648.jpg




Hated the red so badly I needed to change it quick while I searched for a space to do a paint-job properly... So rattle-cans, army colors, and some masking tape and I had it at least NOT RED!

DSC08691.jpg




Started getting it ready for a real paint-job... Big plans... two-tone silver and blue... round headlight conversion... fun times



DSC09184.jpg




Previous owner hacked the car up REALLY badly.. Rolled-out and cut fenders, with bad fender flares BOLTED on.. Bad big-bumper conversion with holes in the fenders for LAG BOLTS... bad news



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Every dent was removed, including sunroof dents:



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Roof was sanded



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More dents filled:



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The entire bottom of the door was Bondo from previous owners... I couldn't bear to sand through it all to find no door left so I patched over it as best as I could...



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My dad's Porsche 914 I had to detail after to clean all the dust out of! (Car was pulled out whenever I painted of course). Trunklid had tons of small dents...



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Bodywork done on the fender, primering:



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Sanding the first coat of primer, threw some nicer wheels on just for fun:

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Painting stage:



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Now the horrible part is after all that I was sick and freakin tired of working on this thing because I wanted to DRIVE IT! 180hp motor in a 2000lb car... and the fastest car I've ever driven was a GMC Savanna Van. You can see the impatience of an 18 year old at this point.



So, Final picture completed car wetsanded and polished:



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And, I am embarassed to say, I NEVER DID FINISH! Didn't wetsand this section:



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DSC01726.jpg




Ok, now that you've gone this far, I can tell you.



I painted the entire car, beginning to end, in Rattlecans. Yes, Rattlecans.



High-build primer was air-gun sprayed 2 part PPG primer, but the actual paint was rattle-cans from Canadian Tire of all places.



A couple other wetsanding endeavors of mine:



DSC03177.jpg




DSC03181.jpg




DSC03197.jpg








This was a friend of mine who painted his car in his garage, with an actual spray gun and all that... I think he copied me....but hey...imitation is another form of flattery!



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Orange peel was BAD!!!



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But Stumpy is here to fix it!



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Break it down and its real simple... Sand the peaks until they meet the valleys... then you're done!



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My Rig at the time: I think I was 20 or 21 by now...



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After sanding before polishing:



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After polishing:



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More after pictures:



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His dad is in the reflection... as are everything else in his garage ;)



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I have wetsanded a LOT more than just these... So believe me when I say, I have a decent amount of experience building, and I want to expand on it.



I want to work in a body-shop, that is for sure...
 
So, having that out of the way...



Is there a possible market for a for-hire wetsand/polisher? Would paint shops contract that out? Or would the painter be doing most of that?



I sort of took-over the after-paint work on that '55 Buick due to the painter not having the tools, experience, or confidence to wetsand and polish the car.



To be perfectly honest, they were scared to touch it... He did try to wetsand a panel, with some nice tools, 3m 1500grit paper and a 6.5" Orbital air-sander...



But he would do one pass, make it dull, and think it's done... He knows there are 4 or 5 heavy coats of clear on there, PLENTY for some wet-block-sanding, but it seemed he didn't want to risk it..



I came in and decided I would carefully do it... and do it I did, and it turned out beautifully!



After finishing it, having about 18-20 hours into it, I realized I could make a LOT more money than the $40/h I was charging... Considering I was turning this mediocre paintjob into a work of art, I could see myself justifying $100/h or more....



Thats where I'd like some EXPERIENCED professionals opinions.



I'm not in THIS forum to talk to backyard know-it-alls, I want to talk to people that actually have experienced themselves what it is like to burn through clear (Yes I have done it more times than I'd like to admit, but that was many years ago and I have always learned from my mistakes).



If I was a painter and did this as well, would I be better off? I'm damn near asking for life-advice!



Thanks for any input you guys can have, please send me a PM if you have spare time and are willing to share some insights, my e-mail address is "gostumpy" @ "shaw.ca" if you'd rather chat that way, or hell, I'm on facebook and MSN, let me know via PM if anyone wants to talk!



I'll check back soon!

Tyler Fuller
 
Any good painter will wetsand his own work. And any smart person would know not to ever wetsand someone else's fresh paint ;) It's a fools foly to get involved with that. Unless you really know the painter and how they processed the piece. I don't get the point really to this thread. If your all balls set to the wall about going after a wetsanding contract or position what does it matter at all what any of us think? Just go out and do it.
 
(I like to hear opinions from many people, sorta like brainstorming online, maybe?)



I made this thread for a reason



Too many people spend thousands of dollars getting their cars painted, but since painters these days are not *always* true professionals, they just spray the car with a nice paint and call it a day... So many people have hot rods that haven't been properly wet sanded... They drive around with $4000 paintjobs not realizing that it can look sooo much better with just a bit more work...



So many that I can see a market in that.. Yes it can be a dangerous one, wet sanding another painter's work.. however I believe the reward is worth the risk..



So I made a thread to get opinions, and so far it is working well!:thx
 
Are you talking about colorsanding? That's what i've always heard it called... i've done some of it... on MUCH cheaper paint jobs, but I would never do a car that had a paint job that expensive unless I had worked under a company or someone who had done it for a lonnnnnnng time. What you have done so far seems to look good from the pics though, just be careful anywhere where there's a bend or sharp edge... it'll burn right through before you even notice.
 
I got my start colorsanding freshly painted cars for small bodyshops. Its all I did. My rig was whatever my Milwaukee buffer, extension cord, rags, pads, compound, polish and sandpaper would fit in.



Most of the work was colorsanding only the refinished panels. I then started offering to make the rest of the paint look good with a quick polish and wax. Then came engines then interiors.



So to answer your question, yes there is a market for it.



OK now the bad news. You will not make a ton of money doing it unless it is for super nice show cars.



Most shops have a min wage guy sanding and buffing cars. Most insurance jobs don't include (or include very little ) time for colorsanding.



To make money you have to be good and quick. If you find shops as I did that will throw 6 to 10 panels at you per day you can make some nice $$$.
 
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