Roof: Just how important is paint correction in terms of "prep" only?

[Johnny 5]

I have run my first advanced search here, a title search for roof, and haven't found what I'm looking for (the regular search box is so efficient, I've never had to try "advanced" before). It's not that the other panels are mutually exclusive to the info I'm looking for, but I figure with Autopians, it's about perfection whenever possible . . .



I am sincerely sorry if I should have more easily found the info I am looking for.



So, with typical sedans, coupes, roadsters, of course I would correct paint on the roof.



However, on a big Escalade I recently detailed, I did not correct the paint on the roof. I did clay the entire beast, glass and wheels as well, and did a two step on all the other panels. (In all honesty the fee I charged did not warrant even a two step, let alone roof paint correction, and it would have required tremendous effort to do so on my part, even if I had a step stool on each side of the SUV for much of the detail, but this is all besides the point.) I used one coat of sealant, including on the roof. Now, pretty much no one is going to ever inspect the roof like an Autopian would, but am I giving up any protection by not polishing? I'm sure one could just keep using an LSP more frequently if the case, but I am just looking for some ballpark info.



I may have a decade old Westfalia which has never been detailed coming my way this summer, and although it was dark when I saw it, it looked like it might be in ok condition considering the history. The roof is very big. The owner, as with the Escalade owner, does not want to spend a great amount. So, is bypassing paint correction on the roof ok, in terms of protection only? Perhaps some chemical paint cleaner after clay bar, followed up by perhaps two coats of protection? Or is compounding/polishing truly essential to paint prepartion for protection; it's not just about beauty?



Thanks for any insight, tips, strategies, opinions, etc.

 

[Bill D]

I am sincerely sorry if I should have more easily found the info I am looking for.

No need to apologize for your search effort not yielding the results you wanted to find. Heck, sure beats the more usual requests for very basic info others may desire who clearly didn’t search at all. So, thank you for making the effort to search. :yo:



.

but am I giving up any protection by not polishing? I'm sure one could just keep using an LSP more frequently if the case, but I am just looking for some ballpark info.

Polishing and protecting are typically different things. Polishing is correcting defects and engaging in the process that results in the paint looking its best. Protecting is either locking in those results with a layer/barrier of LSP or adding a sacrificial barrier to the paint in the state it’s already in. So, technically I wouldn’t say “you’re giving up” protection by not polishing.

The owner, as with the Escalade owner, does not want to spend a great amount. So, is bypassing paint correction on the roof ok, in terms of protection only? Perhaps some chemical paint cleaner after clay bar, followed up by perhaps two coats of protection? Or is compounding/polishing truly essential to paint prepartion for protection; it's not just about beauty?

Given that, it depends on how generous and good of a guy you are but I wouldn’t go too far. I certainly wouldn’t break my back over it unless the price is a healthy ratio to the quality expected of the job.



If the car's finish has no apparent defects - scratches, stains, marring, oxidation, etc, you can do some light burnishing/jeweling and then protect. Some folks do a strict wash and wax job only , where only protection is applied after the paint is thoroughly cleaned but defects in it may be present. Depends on what you're selling/ what the highest price point the client is willing to go for.

 

[JohnKleven]

I think this needs to be clarified with the customer ahead of time. Personally I always correct the roof on every car, but if you feel it is not necessary and adjust your price accordingly, and your customer is in agreement then it's ok.

 

[Johnny 5]

Thanks very much for the reply, Bill D. I feel much better now, as I just wanted to be sure.

 

[Bill D]

Johnny, good luck with that Westfalia. Sounds like it's going to be a big job, and I'm certain it's going to be like night and day when you're done. :xyxthumbs

 

[Johnny 5]

I think this needs to be clarified with the customer ahead of time. Personally I always correct the roof on every car, but if you feel it is not necessary and adjust your price accordingly, and your customer is in agreement then it's ok.

Ah yes, a good point. On both occasions did I make my intentions very clear. The first owner was blown away by the "save" (it wasn't horrible, but some buffer trails, plenty of dog scratches, grille covered with bugs, Leatheriqued the seats, etc), so I am certain he will never ever nit pick about the roof.

 

[Johnny 5]

Johnny, good luck with that Westfalia. Sounds like it's going to be a big job, and I'm certain it's going to be like night and day when you're done. :xyxthumbs

Thanks, Bill D.

 

[Guitarist302008]

I really HATE to do the roof on pretty much any car. My 370z however has a little tiny one which is awesome lol. I'm working on my Fiancee's Mazdaspeed 3 and about to do the roof, I really don't want to, but I feel like any job doing is worth doing right... now would I do an entire Escalade for 150 or 200.00 the roof included? Ummmm NO!!!

 

[Johnny 5]

I really HATE to do the roof on pretty much any car. My 370z however has a little tiny one which is awesome lol. I'm working on my Fiancee's Mazdaspeed 3 and about to do the roof, I really don't want to, but I feel like any job doing is worth doing right... now would I do an entire Escalade for 150 or 200.00 the roof included? Ummmm NO!!!

Heh, thanks for the reply Guitarist. My first "real" gig was a Mazdaspeed3, Metropolitan Gray as I recall. I enjoyed working on it, and I actually got to drive the car after dropping the owner off at the airport. Fun car! A bit louder than I'm used to. I thought the seats were pretty interesting, as they were made of both leather and alcantara, definitely a first for me.



The dog hair in the back was a near impossibility. I think he was really impressed at my "99% dog hair correction" (husky). Pet hair roller and lots of sweat! Ridgid and Metro Vac didn't stand a chance! lol

 

[PhatHoodDetail]

well its always a pain to do some roofs but i hate to say, if it was easy everyone would do it. i would include the roof in the 1st quote and would not bring it up about not correcting it for cheaper unless they ask for it. basically its called cutting corners and the problem with that is it takes 1 customer to say he did a great job but didnt do the roof. now we both know u would without any problems or if u made the arrangement still that negativity will linger over your head with that new customer. i wouldnt want to put myself in a position where that can cost me a full detail.

 

[DaGonz]

In my humble opinion the roof is just as important as the rest of the car... A client is not paying for a "partial detail"...



While some people may never look at the roof of their vehicle... there are those that do.



Another reason to do the roof... when the driver is being chased by the PD and the news helicopters are following the story.. wouldn't you want to say "hey, I detailed that... look at the reflection of the sky from the roof! :bigups:cool1::drum:

 

[Scottwax]

Some people really don't care about the roof of their SUV or minivan and would prefer a discount on not having it deeply polished as long as it does get protected. Others want the roof to be as perfect as the rest of the vehicle. Best thing to do is discuss it beforehand with the customer. My personal preference is to treat the roof the same as the rest of the vehicle but ultimately since the customer is the one writing the check, it is their decision.

 

[C. Charles Hahn]

Some people really don't care about the roof of their SUV or minivan and would prefer a discount on not having it deeply polished as long as it does get protected. Others want the roof to be as perfect as the rest of the vehicle. Best thing to do is discuss it beforehand with the customer. My personal preference is to treat the roof the same as the rest of the vehicle but ultimately since the customer is the one writing the check, it is their decision.

I agree; I've come to the point though where *most* customers just want the roof protected on tall SUVs and Vans so by default if I'm doing a multi-step correction I ask "Would you like the roof corrected as well, or would you prefer I just go with an AIO product to give it some protection?"

 

[Accumulator]

While I'm just as fanatical about the roofs of my SUVs/etc. as I am about the hood of my Audi, I'm actually *glad* to see so many people posting opinions like "ask the customer.." instead of the usual Autopian perfectionism. Note that people who use roof racks and such are likely to do some serious damage to the finish up there anyhow.

 

[Johnny 5]

well its always a pain to do some roofs but i hate to say, if it was easy everyone would do it. i would include the roof in the 1st quote and would not bring it up about not correcting it for cheaper unless they ask for it. basically its called cutting corners and the problem with that is it takes 1 customer to say he did a great job but didnt do the roof. now we both know u would without any problems or if u made the arrangement still that negativity will linger over your head with that new customer. i wouldnt want to put myself in a position where that can cost me a full detail.

In my humble opinion the roof is just as important as the rest of the car... A client is not paying for a "partial detail"...



While some people may never look at the roof of their vehicle... there are those that do.



Another reason to do the roof... when the driver is being chased by the PD and the news helicopters are following the story.. wouldn't you want to say "hey, I detailed that... look at the reflection of the sky from the roof! :bigups:cool1::drum:

Some people really don't care about the roof of their SUV or minivan and would prefer a discount on not having it deeply polished as long as it does get protected. Others want the roof to be as perfect as the rest of the vehicle. Best thing to do is discuss it beforehand with the customer. My personal preference is to treat the roof the same as the rest of the vehicle but ultimately since the customer is the one writing the check, it is their decision.

I agree; I've come to the point though where *most* customers just want the roof protected on tall SUVs and Vans so by default if I'm doing a multi-step correction I ask "Would you like the roof corrected as well, or would you prefer I just go with an AIO product to give it some protection?"

I appreciate the opinions about what *should* be done. However, to make myself clearer than before, this really was more of a technical question (which had never arose before, because I previously did as all of you guys: always correct paint on the roof). I will make different recommendations according to the dialogue with customer, depending on the info I am armed with. Therefore, had all of you said that paint correction was essential to protecting the paint, there would no longer be a question for me, at least in these two cases. They shared the same #1 priority, which was protection, but on a budget.



The Escalade took me 14 hours. The initial offering price by the owner was only $200. At first I was going to say forget it, but my good friend, a remodeler with his own small biz opined that I should *absolutely* take the job, because I need customers. So, after a bit of deliberation, I threw my hands up, and countered with $225 only. Well, as he was very pleased with what he saw, he tipped me well; total sum of $260. This is still only $18.57 per hour, and that's before materials (and I used more than I have ever before in my life).



But I'm not here to defend myself, only to ask a technical question. It was on multiple occasions that I let the owner know the roof was not corrected. He didn't care, every time he was told. I don't want to have this turn into some morality play like in this 8 yr old thread that I read front to back last night. This guy "only" did 7 hours for the friend's/dad's car for free, I don't know how many for free on the daughter's car, but yes it was all free and he's getting grilled! lol (Bad choice of words for the thread title, I suppose).



http://www.autopia.org/forum/profes...92-do-you-cheat-when-detailing-roof-suvs.html



For full disclosure, I own a small business in a different industry entirely, and am just starting to turn this relatively new hobby into some side money. Last month I did three cars over three weekends. The Escalade (at whatever bargain price) might have started to pay off. I believe his wife now wants me to do her Saturn at some point (but they're so spoiled on prices now), and various neighbors have become quite interested. While washing my own car yesterday, a young man from two doors down (who has complimented my work, as has his father) says he has two friends up the street that are now interested in my services. A Lancer Evo and G35 I was told, second owners on both, and neither have been ever corrected. It was the Escalade that they passed by during multiple days of work that sold them. I may or may not be inclined later to post some photos for you guys, but then, I don't think I need to defend myself.

 

[Johnny 5]

While I'm just as fanatical about the roofs of my SUVs/etc. as I am about the hood of my Audi, I'm actually *glad* to see so many people posting opinions like "ask the customer.." instead of the usual Autopian perfectionism. Note that people who use roof racks and such are likely to do some serious damage to the finish up there anyhow.

Thank you for your perspective.

 

[Guitarist302008]

getting 260 is more than i've ever gotten... most people around here have no money and have never heard of "paint correction" they just think washing and waxing gets the scratches out. I did a Camaro that was the WORST paint condition I have ever seen in my life and when I told him 220.00 he looked at me like I was crazy. The car took me approximately 25-30 hours to do... interior, exterior... everything... I even had to wet sand the front of the car.



The thing about it is this guy is RICH.. and I mean really rich. Drives around in a CTS-V and then gets a look on his face like I just shot his dog when I told him the price and I was giving him a price break as it was! This was easily a 350-400.00 job.



Now people ask me " Can you make my car look like that "? I just tell them... yeah sure, for 300-400.00.

 

[Accumulator]

johnny 5- Oh, and to get back to your original question, if you clay and/or paint-clean the roof things will be just fine in the functional sense. For that matter, I know people who've never used anything more aggressive than cleaner-wax and while their cars are far from Autopian they're nice enough to be "best in the parking lot".



One could even argue that thinning the clear on the topmost horizontal surface might not be the best thing with regard to long-term maintenance anyhow.

..I did a Camaro that was the WORST paint condition I have ever seen in my life and when I told him 220.00 he looked at me like I was crazy. The car took me approximately 25-30 hours to do...



The thing about it is this guy is RICH.. ... and then gets a look on his face like I just shot his dog when I told him the price and I was giving him a price break as it was!

Assuming he got rich in a manner that imparted a sense of the value of time (say...*his* time ) you might point out how that Camaro worked out to less than $9/hr. Try finding a craftsman in any field who'll work for that kind of money :grinno:

 

[Johnny 5]

johnny 5- Oh, and to get back to your original question, if you clay and/or paint-clean the roof things will be just fine in the functional sense. For that matter, I know people who've never used anything more aggressive than cleaner-wax and while their cars are far from Autopian they're nice enough to be "best in the parking lot".



One could even argue that thinning the clear on the topmost horizontal surface might not be the best thing with regard to long-term maintenance anyhow.:

And thanks again, Accumulator.



For all, just in case I didn't clearly state it, it wasn't just during and afterward that the customer was told the roof wasn't corrected, but this was explained as my plan from the very first discussion as a means to keep costs down. (We were both considering backing out over differences in money/value/work.) As I'm learning here for certain now, at the time I was under the belief that I didn't need correction for protection (otherwise I would have). However, since finishing and returning that job, I've read some enthusiasts at other forums opine that correction was in fact needed, and then I thought, huh, uh oh, what have I done, better go check with the real experts . . . over here. And ever since Bill's early reply, I started to feel relieved, back in my comfort zone. The Westfalia owner knows my intention to not correct roof paint; as it is he still can't yet afford the agreed price (again, very affordable for what I'm going to offer) and he will get back to me later in the summer when he has the disposable sum. To quote him, "this thing is the most valuable thing I own, so I think I should really protect it . . .".

 

[Guitarist302008]

johnny 5- Oh, and to get back to your original question, if you clay and/or paint-clean the roof things will be just fine in the functional sense. For that matter, I know people who've never used anything more aggressive than cleaner-wax and while their cars are far from Autopian they're nice enough to be "best in the parking lot".



One could even argue that thinning the clear on the topmost horizontal surface might not be the best thing with regard to long-term maintenance anyhow.







Assuming he got rich in a manner that imparted a sense of the value of time (say...*his* time ) you might point out how that Camaro worked out to less than $9/hr. Try finding a craftsman in any field who'll work for that kind of money :grinno:

Here's the thread when I still owned my Evo ... you can see how bad the paint was.. I don't know if it shows that i'm pretty good at detailing or a sucker for getting shafted in the money area lol.



This guy is rich to the point that he gave and ENTIRE area of land... 5 or 10 acres to the county for 1.00. It's a very humble and nice thing to do, but it angers me that people are like that and then have the nerve to turn around and look at you like they do for 220.00.

Older Camaro detail: WORST PAINT CONDITION I'VE SEEN!!! - evolutionm.net