Newbie needs advice on compounding/orbital

A

amansker

New member
I recently purchased a 91 Volvo 740 that has "good paint" but lots of fine scratches and some not so fine. None go to the metal. There is no noticable fading or clearcoat peeling (common on these). The color is medium silver. The body has some dings and a 3" x 8" scrape (that won't be repaired) so we are not talking about a show car. I do, however, want to get the best I can out of the paint.



The top surfaces (hood, trunk, roof) have a rough textured feel. Can't see obvious pitting, etc. A thorough rubbing/wax takes away 50% of the problem. I'm thinking I want to buff the surface with compound.



A friend gave me a B&D orbital, slow revs that he uses for buffing. Pat worked in a body shop for a couple of years and assures me this is a "safe" buffer. He also gave me a product:



R-M

854 Wheel Polishing Compound

for lacquer and enamel

for industrial use only

"highest quality, automotive lacquer and enamel type finishes with a buffing wheel 854 is used on auto production lines to obtain rapid controlled action, freedom from course scratching,, will not discolor the lightest shades of automotoive oclors"



Pat assures me this is a very fine grit and I won't get myself into trouble (if I follow the instructions.



Any feedback from you guys before I go for it?



Also, what would you suggest as a one-step wax/finish? I bought some Mother's carnuba wax that was on sale, but that was before I heard about this forum.



All feedback is appreciated.
 
Don't know much about Black and Decker buffers, what pad are you using? Don't use a compound on a clear coat car, specially one that old, it may remove the clear coat and make a bigger mess. Your safest bet is to use a dimishing abbrasive like Meg's #83. For wax it depends on the color, and you may want one with a filler rather than a caranuba to help hide scratches that you missed with the buffer. I good all around wax is Klasse AIO or Meg's NXT Tech Wax.
 
The pad is soft, whiteish yellow, but I don't know other than it looks like soft/fluffy cotton. I will look into the products you mentioned.
 
Whitish yellow and fluffy is a blended wool pad probably . If you use that , you'll need to use 2 or 3 more pads after it to get the swirls it puts into the paint out .

I think #84 Meg's is the recommended compound for orbitals .

Meg's burgandy pad should make light work of removing the wool pad's swirls with the right machine glaze
 
Meg’s #84 is for rotary polishers only.



Meg’s also recommends that the burgundy cutting pad never be used with and orbital or DA polisher (although some here have reported they have done it successfully).



The first things to do are wash and clay the finish. From there you can evaluate its state and decide which way to go.



If you could give us a model number or the specifications of the polisher we could get a better idea just what it’s capable of. Some orbitals have almost no restoration capability. Others can accomplish a fair amount.





PC.
 
Black and Decker Polisher 9530

no RPM quoted, but says "OPM" 2500

8"

Random Orbit Action

1/3hp



All help is appreciated.



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Wool pad + compound is used for cutting, this will leave the car with a good amount of swirls. Then you'll need to get a foam pad and polish like #83 to remove the marring from the wool pad.
 
The first things to do are wash and clay the finish. From there you can evaluate its state and decide which way to go.
Click to expand...



This makes sense. I have never heard of "clay" until I visited this forum. If you can recommend something, I'll follow your suggestion.



As for the pad, I will purchase whatever you guys suggest (within reason).
 
I bought a Mother's clay brick kit and wax. Washed the car well and use the clay over the trunk & hood - two most textured areas. I could see dirt coming up as I worked the clay through the liquid. Afterwards there was still lots of bumpy texture. Then waxed with Mother's Carnauba.



The finish shines well and looks much better, but I can still feel the roughness found only on top surfaces. It also looks like some permenant water spots that didn't come out. In good light I can see a textured finish under the clearcoat from 2' away. Is that normal in paint? It is patterned, consistant and intentional (or so it seems).



So, what is the next step? Should I Clay the whole car? or should I buff this out with a wheel? If so, what should I use to buff it? Please recommend a pad and product.
 
The texture you see in the finish is called "orange peel", it's completely normal. Custom painters go to a lot of trouble to eliminate it but it's standard on all finishes (especially OEM).



Since you still feel roughness you might try claying again, this time try working in smaller patches and applying more pressure. If that doesn't help you've probably got oxidation or etching. I would clay the whole car.



Sorry, I can't help you with the R-M compound. I've never used R-M products (well, maybe some enamel reducer or degreaser) and 845 isn't listed on their (lame) website.



The B&D polisher you've got looks like it's sort of in between the DA polishers most of us here like to use and the common big orbitals (which are fairly useless). The bonnet looks to be a "sheepskin" type which I've never used. I don't know if you can get decent foam bonnets for it or not. Most of us here use Velcro style pads that allow you to interchange them easily and choose from a variety of different foams.



The tough part about recommending a pad and product for polishing is that without seeing the condition of the finish first hand and seeing how it responds any suggestion is just a guess. Normally you'd start with a few products of varying aggressiveness in hand and try them to see what works.



Where in SoCal are you? If you're in easy driving distance of Irvine I'd recommend attending a Meguiar's clinic.





PC.
 
Now that you mention it, it IS orange peel as you jarred my memory. I looked closeer in the sun today and see that some of the dark bumps protrude upwards (sap/whatever) and some are chips/holes (probably oxidation?). A redo with clay might help the former.



I'm an hour from Irvine, but would rather pay someone to do this than invest that time/money. I originally planned to have someone else do it, but got kind of inspired by this forum.



I'll take your advice, do the entire car - WELL - with the clay. Then I'm going to work on interior/bumper/trim and come back to this in the future. Also have some mechanical things to do.



Thanks to all for your help! I will be back.
 
Just when you thought it was safe . . . I'M BAAAAACK. Now I have a much better picture of what is going on. I clay barred, hand rubbed compound and waxed the roof which has the worst "pitting." Some of the black specks popped off with a finger nail, but most did not come off. When they did come off they left a small pit in the clear coat and/or into the paint. I think this must be "oxidation?"



I just worked it the best I could and triple-coated the worst areas with wax for now. I have a couple of questions:



1. Doesn't oxidation start at the metal level and work its way up? These seem to have started on the outside (but cannot tell for sure).



2. Is there anything that can be done with these besides a complete paint job?



3. Are the $500 paint jobs at Macco and Earl Scheib a reasonable alternative if the paint is taken care of? I know they use cheap paint and minimal clearcoat.
 
Dum dum… Dum dum... Dum duh daaaaaahhhh…. Sorry, that’s closest thing to Jaws music I could come up with. :think:



In a chemistry sense your little divots may well be from an oxidation reaction. Traditionally, I believe when most people think of oxidation they’re thinking about it over a larger surface area and probably not as deep as the pits you have but the bottom line is the same; your paint has been eaten away.



Getting the contaminants off was the most important thing to do. You also did the right thing by getting some protection on while you decide what to do next.



You may be surprised how good it ends up looking even with just a hand polish with something like Meguiar’s ScratchX followed by a coat of wax.



amansker said:
1. Doesn't oxidation start at the metal level and work its way up? These seem to have started on the outside (but cannot tell for sure).
Click to expand...
No. It starts where the finish is exposed to atmospheric oxygen, chemical contamination and UV radiation; the outer surface.



amansker said:
2. Is there anything that can be done with these besides a complete paint job?
Click to expand...
It depends on how deep it goes. If the damage is confined to the uppermost percentage of the paint film (common wisdom says the top 0.00025� to 0.00050� out of a total of 0.0015� to 0.0020�) you can polish it out. If it goes deeper you can “smooth the edges� of the defects but removing them completely leaves too little film and the finish will fail quickly.



amansker said:
3. Are the $500 paint jobs at Macco and Earl Scheib a reasonable alternative if the paint is taken care of? I know they use cheap paint and minimal clearcoat.
Click to expand...
Mixed bag. I’ve seen tolerable $500 shoots come out of Maaco and 1-Day (not including any bodywork), especially if the owner does a lot of prep work ahead of time. Even if the shoot goes well it will still be a low grade of paint at that price. Quality variation from shop to shop can be huge. If you go for a low buck shoot inspect examples of their work (at that price point!) before committing.





PC.
 
I have owned cars with cheap paint jobs, it is not very satisfactory. If you do a lot of the prep work yourself you can save a lot of money. Painting is a skilled job, if your looking at various bodyshops, take a good luck at any of the cars they have done. A good painter should be able to give the same kind of standard as the manufacturer or better if funds allow.
 
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