Killed a pad. What did I do wrong?

C

CoryB

New member
Disclaimer: I'm new to machine polishing and still learning.



So I'm happily polishing away on my MINI Cooper with my PC, orange Sonus DAS pad and Z-PC. Suddenly I start seeing little bits of orange foam fly. I immediately turn off the PC and look at the pad.



The velcro backing is peeling away from the foam and the back of the pad is HOTTT.



Environment: I was alternating between speeds 3.5 to spread the Z-PC and 5.5-6 to polish out the microscratches. When I first started I sprayed one light shot of Z6 on the pad and then put on an X of Z-PC across the pad. I reloaded the Z-PC as needed (when it cleared/dried/started dusting). I got the bonnet (hood) and 1/4 of the roof done before the pad self-destructed, and I noticed that the PC seemed to be laboring a bit before the pad came apart. I finished the roof with a Sonus green pad and had no other problems.



Any thoughts or hints on what I was probably doing wrong to cause this?



FWIW, the velcro is separated about a quarter of the way around the foam and there is apparently no glue in the center of the pad from what I can tell. Can this be fixed with shoe-goo or should I just chalk it up to learning and replace the pad?
 
that has happened to me plenty of times. but buffing with a porter cable?? get real man. porter cable is an orbital buffer, how can you expect to do any real work with some thing that does not even create heat? get your self a dewalt, or a mikita, a single motion, non orbital. but the reason the pad flaked, ususally on the edges, is beacuse there was no product in that particular spot, and when it hit the car it created too much friction, and the pad flaked
 
I've never had that happen to me with my PC and pad kit from CMA. I would figure the back of the pad would stay cool since it's moving with the backing plate (no friction). In fact, I've never had my pads get THAT hot before even on 6. Was the pad level with the car? Hopefully someone with more experience with the PC can help you out.



I feel much safer with a PC than with a rotary. It may take longer to work and require the right products, but it can light imperfections. I'd recommend anyone who's not ready to use a rotary!



-Dacali
 
ahhh, A PC no good? Funny, a lot of people here like them! Sounds to me like you have no idea what you are talking about there beachcities.... :furious:
 
Cory,



I've noticed pads heating up, too . . . I'm pretty sure it's a side-effect of the constant change of direction the velcro backing is dealing with. In my experience, I've never noticed the face of the pad getting hot; rather, the velcro backing begins to heat up from the orbital motion. As would be expected, it's a lot more common when you're running your buffer at high speed (5-6).



What can be done about it? Not much that I can think of, really, other than having several pads on hand so you can give a pad a "rest" when the backing begins to heat up.



And beachcities, you might want to do some browsing through the Click & Brag forum to see just what kind of "real work" can be done with a Porter Cable or Cyclo (most posters will list their process in the first post). A rotary is no doubt the fastest way to correcting paint, but it is possible to get similar results with an orbital given enough time, and a PC or Cyclo is certainly a much safer choice than a rotary for the weekend "enthusiast" detailer.



Tort
 
beachcities said:
that has happened to me plenty of times. but buffing with a porter cable?? get real man. porter cable is an orbital buffer, how can you expect to do any real work with some thing that does not even create heat? get your self a dewalt, or a mikita, a single motion, non orbital. but the reason the pad flaked, ususally on the edges, is beacuse there was no product in that particular spot, and when it hit the car it created too much friction, and the pad flaked
Click to expand...



This is undoubtedly the first time I have EVER heard anyone bad mouth the PC. Granted the PC cannot do all the work that a rotary can. The PC can accomplish a lot of what the rotary does sometimes though it takes a bit longer. On the plus side with a PC you don't have to worry about burning through your paint if you're a beginner which IMO is a big plus. I think you'll find the PC is in fact the machine of choice on this website as well as others. There's also a big fan base for the cyclo.
 
beachcities said:
that has happened to me plenty of times. but buffing with a porter cable?? get real man. porter cable is an orbital buffer, how can you expect to do any real work with some thing that does not even create heat? get your self a dewalt, or a mikita, a single motion, non orbital. but the reason the pad flaked, ususally on the edges, is beacuse there was no product in that particular spot, and when it hit the car it created too much friction, and the pad flaked
Click to expand...





:rolleyes:
 
beachcities said:
.....but buffing with a porter cable?? get real man. porter cable is an orbital buffer, how can you expect to do any real work with some thing that does not even create heat?
Click to expand...





:geez



Would you consider this real work?



Before

01-3_sm.jpg






After SSR3 and PC

01-4_sm.jpg
 
What type of backing plate do you have? The smaller ones tend to run a bit hotter (due to less surface area unable to dissipate heat as quickly) and heat is what can break down the adhesive holding the velcro backing on the pad. The Meguiars backing plate is especially bad with regards to heat retention-luckily, the new adhesive Meguiars is now using on their pads seems to hold up very well, haven't had one seperate in about a year.



A defective pad is also a possibility.
 
I used the Sonüs DAS pad kit from Autopia CarCare. The backing plate measures ~4 5/8"



Here are some pictures of the pad:



With a pen in place to show where the glue broke down.

267.jpg




And another picture of the pad without the pen.

268.jpg
 
I agree he's pressing too hard; but it looks like the vast majority of the glue holding the velcro on is failing. Look at the central portion of the pad where the backing plate makes contact. In that picture it looks loose. I guess this could all be a result of the excessive pressure. I'd say he ran it real fast, pressed real hard, and didn't keep the pad very flat.
 
The weight of the PC was the only downward pressure on the pad - I didn't push it down at all. But it was running at 5.5 speed for quite a while.



This is only the second vehicle on which the pad has been used. The first use was on the hood and front fenders of a Jeep - large, mostly flat surfaces. This time it was on the top and hood of a MINI Cooper - lots of curvy surfaces.
 
Must be a defective pad then. I did a whole Civic with an orange using moderate pressure and it looks as good as new after a wash.
 
I received a call from Lynn of Autopia today. She's going to replace the damaged orange pad at no cost to me. :woot2:



Her suggestion was to keep the maximum speed with the orange pad to 5 and use a bit more pressure to get rid of the micromarring. It seems that prolonged use at 6 will overheat the pad (exactly what happened with mine)



So here's a big :2thumbs: to Lynn and Autopia. Thanks for everyones help!
 
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