How likely am I to jack up my paint from clay bar decon?

B

bofh

New member
My car really needs a clay bar treatment! I have some strip wash, iron remover, clay lube, a Nanoskin Autoscrub blue, and some clay. I`m ready to clay the car!

However, I`ve never done this before. I have also never used a polisher and don`t have one and honestly don`t want to learn how to use one for now. But I really do want to remove the surface contaminants from my paint.

Now: the car has black paint. How likely am I as a novice to jack up the paint via clay bar decon work? In the YouTube videos I`ve watched, clay bar is usually followed by polishing which I am hoping to skip. Maybe that doesn`t make sense to expect? I`d like to hear from experts.
 
bofh- Welcome to Autopia!

I suspect you`ll get responses that run the gamut...from "quite unlikely" to "inevitable". I lean towards the latter end of the spectrum, but I do clay without marring my paint (appreciably) so it`s not like I think it`s *really* inevitable.

Here`s the main problem as I see it: once the clay picks up a speck of something abrasive, it basically becomes sandpaper; that speck of [whatever] is the "sandpaper`s grit" and it can/will mar your paint.

How to avoid the marring: don`t press hard, use lots of (good) lube, and inspect/knead/replace your clay frequently..very frequently (I do a few inches max and I don`t mean four). Be sure you have very good inspection conditions/lighting.

Remember that, contrary to what many believe, clay doesn`t "pull contamination out of the paint", rather it glides along on a film of lube until it bumps into contamination, which it then shears off. Note that this means it can`t get down into the pores/microfissures of the paint, which is why some contamination issues seem to "come back" later after the claying; some of the contamination was still there waiting to rear its ugly head down the road.

Trying to make clay behave more aggressively can undo that "it glides along..." to where the clay is in direct contact with the paint. Some think this is fine, I do not.

Q: why do you expect to need the mechanical decontamination (clay, nanoskin) after using the Strip Wash and Ferrous Decontamination Product?

I`m assuming you`ve already verified that you genuinely do need to do the decontamination period...if it doesn`t need doing, I wouldn`t do it.

This whole issue of marring the paint when doing mechanical decontamination is why I generally think Chemical Decontamination is a better idea; it`s just doing a series of carwashes with the right stuff. Unless something`s very contaminated, the chemicals usually do a great job without the need for any mechanical work.

NOW...let`s see how many others here take a completely different view of it! Opinions/experiences sure do vary when it comes to decontamination.
 
I agree with Accumulator so the answer is maybe. If your car is so contaminated that it needs claying it probably also needs polishing.

People that are new to anything usually mess it up. Be prepared to mess up.

Do your wash, then iron decon, then wash again. Now grab a plastic baggie, stick your hand in it and feel the paint. Does it still feel rough? Then, and only then, you do a clay mechanical decon. Be prepared to polish because touching the paint in any way can cause marring (that’s a fact).

I rarely get marring from claying with my clay substitute and high quality clay lube. When I used to use real clay I got more marring. With my clay towel I can use my whole hand and “float” it over the surface. Good materials and good techniques are the keys to success and to succeed you probably have to fail a few times. Don’t be afraid to fail. This stuff is supposed to be fun, right?
 
rlmccarty2000- You`ve already heard this a million times from me, but I`ll never understand how/why people get less marring with a decon towel than with clay. Cannot wrap my head around that!

This stuff is supposed to be fun, right?
Click to expand...

I keep hearing that....

But anyhow...you do bring up a good point about the polishing. While it is indeed opening a *big* can-o`-worms, sooner or later everything needs some degree of polishing *IF* it`s to be kept to a certain level. BUT that "if" is a purely subjective measure and if somebody doesn`t set the bar there then I won`t be the guy who says he oughta.

But gee...I`d think some kind of paint cleaner/AIO/something might be worth at least considering if the paint is actually in the kind of condition where decontamination is (truly) necessary.

Eh, there I go again, imposing Autopian Standards on somebody else :o The cosmetic condition of a vehicle`s paint only matters as much as the owner thinks it does. IF contamination bothers somebody more than marring that`s not my business.
 
I`ve known people who kept their cars very, *very* nice without ever using a polish, let alone a polisher. Even just cleaner-wax followed by a straight wax has worked fine for some folks, in their opinions, and *their* opinions are the only ones that oughta matter.
 
OP here. To be clear, when I run my finger along the paint inside a ziplock it feels like used sandpaper in places. I live in a wooded area not kind to vehicles. It sounds like my inexperience is "likely" to result in the need for polishing. Thanks everyone!
 
Accumulator said:
rlmccarty2000- You`ve already heard this a million times from me, but I`ll never understand how/why people get less marring with a decon towel than with clay. Cannot wrap my head around that!
Click to expand...

I`m with you. I`ve used both and my experience with a Nanoskin pad was so bad I tossed it and went back to clay. On my vehicles I can clan with minimal, to no real noticable marring. I used the Nanoskin several times on multiple vehicles and never had it NOT leave noticeable marring. I also noticed the marring is different. Clay bar marring can almost appear like wash/dry induced swirls while the Nanoskin pad left something which looked very different and was VERY noticeable.

I`ll never clay my vehicles without either using a glaze to hide any marring (i.e. when going into winter) or actually polishing out the marring (i.e. going into spring when I really care how the vehicle looks). I maintain my cars pretty well and they aren`t exposed to industrial fallout, so contamination really isn`t that bad for me unless it`s the lower doors and rear hatch after a long winter.
 
My theory why some of us get less marring with the decon towel over clay are as follows. The detail clay is a very smooth surface with no where for contaminants to hide or be lifted to (in between times when you kneed the clay) (see below). I dont kneed the clay nearly enough, I have arthritis and it kills my hands and I am lazy. I don`t think I was replacing my clay soon enough also. Towel is fast and easy I soak and clean it in a rinsless wash solution. The towel stay lubricated easier where the clay tends to push the lube aside and let it bead off. My towel has a lot off variation in the surface (see below) leaving spaces for contaminants to go in between times I clean it in my bucket. Thats just one loose nuts opinion.




what-is-clay.jpg


speedy-surface-prep-towel.jpg
 
IIRC, every Decontamination Towel cautions against using it on matte/semi-gloss/etc. finishes. Why? Because of the likelihood (near certainty?) of it causing abrasion.

trashmanssd- Heh heh, maybe the loose nut here is Accumulator claying his way ...spending hours and hours, and going through lots of clay.. and then wondering why others don`t have the same experience when they clay with a more reasonable method :o

But seriously, yeah, I understand completely how you just have to find what`s best for *you* after considering all the factors. I get the idea of the contaminants ending up in the "valleys" of the towel, but I can`t see it working to my satisfaction any more than that idea works with regard to various wash media that are supposed to do the same ("the dirt gets safely trapped up away from the paint").

bofh- Ah, it does indeed sound like you need to decontaminate. Beyond that, IMO you`ll need to figure out what your values/priorities/etc. are, how far you want to get into this Detailing Thing, with regard to Polishing. But you might oughta consider at least using some All-In-One product that has a bit of abrasive in it.
 
Welcome to the Forum, BOFH !

Lots of great, reliable, feedback, from very well experienced men above ^^^^^^^^^

All I can add is this --
You have a Black vehicle.. If you want it to be really clear and glossy, it will need extra time and care, and then, long-term care will be more because of the color, than any other color... I have owned many, many, Black vehicles and Detailed hundreds of others.. They are all on the "high maintenance" side of the Detailing world because of the color..

You can choose how much work you want to put into this car to achieve the level of clarity and gloss that is right with your eyes and satisfaction, and it will be fine..

In my experiences with Clay Bars (since they first came out in the 80`s), to the first Rubberized Towels that came out around 10 years ago (SM Arnold, https://www.autopia-carcare.com/speedy-prep-towel.html#.XA7HI1WQH3g), the ClayBars of the proper grit (Fine vs Medium), will Always be more efficient. But the trade off is the Claybar is smaller than the rubberized towel, and requires frequent cleaning (https://www.autogeek.net/blackfire-clay-cleaner.html) or kneading to remove the gunk you removed from that section of paintwork, before you start the next section..

The newer, Rubberized Towels work great, require much less work to get them clean for the next pass ( the gunk just rinses out easily with water), BUT, in the Fine grade, they will take longer and require more pressure to work, than the Claybar will.. Is that a good thing for you or not? You have to decide...

Now, the caveat - Sometimes, if the Rubberized towel is too warm, or working on hot surfaces even with a good claylube, soap, etc., it might want to stick to the surface and then induce some marring on that spot.. This is not a rule, this is - sometimes -

You will have to - learn - how to use it and be careful with it, as you will with a Claybar...

The best thing you can do to - help - you get through this learning process is to try to get some great products that are proven to work, and one of those products is this -- https://www.autopia-carcare.com/dodo-juice-clay-lubricant.html#.XA7JV1WQH3g

This claybar lube works really great with claybars or rubberized towels, I have used it for years and it has never failed me.. It does not leave anything on the paint that would not be removed with a good wipedown of products used before Coating vehicles, either...

Black cars require more work, finesse, etc., short term and long term, if you want to keep the paint clarity high with high gloss..
You will decide how much work you want to put into that car to keep it at the level you decide is great for your needs..

It will be great to become familiar enough with all the processes described above - Claybar, Rubberized Towels, a Machine to help with the paintwork as needed, and then some great products to help you protect the paint after all the pre-work...

Good luck with your research !
Dan F
 
If the rubberized towels had a white or lighter colored surface, I don`t think many people would still think that they rinse cleanly. I`ve seen some pictures of that Opt clay towel with the light blue rubber and they look trashed after using.
 
DBAILEY said:
If the rubberized towels had a white or lighter colored surface, I don`t think many people would still think that they rinse cleanly. I`ve seen some pictures of that Opt clay towel with the light blue rubber and they look trashed after using.
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DBAILEY --------------------
Hey Amigo !
I hope you guys are all good !
Perhaps some of these rubberized towels are made a little differently?

I have only used a few of the SM Arnold Speedy Prep rubberized towels, and while they are black colored, I can tell that they are rinsing clean each time, because I always look at anything very carefully, before I put it on paintwork..

Was that Optimum clay towel with the light blue rubber you mentioned, rinsed before the picture was taken??

Edit -- I just looked up the Optimum versions, the Blue and the Fine Blue at the Autopia Store ---
The Blue has holes in it that look like they could trap stuff and hold it, unless rinsed really well, but without having one in my hand to feel it, I am just assuming..
The Fine Blue looks more like a light blue microfiber towel - at least in the picture, when you look it up here at the Autopia Store..
Of course, not having had this one either cannot really tell much about it without having it on hand..

The SM Arnold one is very rubberized feeling on one side - there is no mistake about that, and it does not have deep holes, etc., in it, so it rinses very quickly and easily..

Dan F
 
Both clay and towels are abrasive. IMO they should always be followed with a polishing. I prefer the nanoskin towel with Glide as lube and I don`t have an issue with any noticeable marring but I still won`t use it without polishing.

Side note, I picked up a Meguiar`s Clay kit the other day to touch up a Z06 C7 I did over the summer (stubborn tree sap) and it marred the crap out of the paint. They switched to some "synthetic" feeling clay and I didn`t care for it at all. The car was trashed from clay marring when the owner originally brought it to me and I thought he had done it improperly, but after seeing it myself the paint was simply very susceptible to clay marring.

To each their own.
 
Something that hasn`t been mentioned...perhaps because it`s "something we all already know"..is the suggestion to tear a claybar up into small(is) pieces. Easier to knead, less costly if dropped ("if" or "when"?), and using small pieces almost forces you to work small areas at a time, which IMO helps with doing it carefully.


RaskyR1 said:
Both clay and towels are abrasive. IMO they should always be followed with a polishing..
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Or at least a careful inspection ;)

Oh, and that`s interesting about the C7 being so easy to mar.
 
Accumulator said:
Something that hasn`t been mentioned...perhaps because it`s "something we all already know"..is the suggestion to tear a claybar up into small(is) pieces. Easier to knead, less costly if dropped ("if" or "when"?), and using small pieces almost forces you to work small areas at a time, which IMO helps with doing it carefully.




Or at least a careful inspection ;)

Oh, and that`s interesting about the C7 being so easy to mar.
Click to expand...

I can`t say that`s the case for all of them as I worked on 4 this summer and only this one gave me issues. Megs OTC clay has always been pretty mild IMO but this new stuff is weird.
 
I haven’t seen that green Sonus super mild clay in a while. I need to see if they still make it. I always got good results from it while spot claying. I want to try that Born Slippy clay lube too.
 
My preference is to spot clay with a claybar but clay the whole vehicle with a clay towel. Similar to what you guys said if I`m just trying to get a little piece of bug or whatever off I`m more "strategic" with my claybar and less likely to mar. If the whole car actually *needs* claying it`s probably time for at least a jeweling polish or AIO anyways.
 
Bill D said:
I haven’t seen that green Sonus super mild clay in a while. I need to see if they still make it. I always got good results from it while spot claying. I want to try that Born Slippy clay lube too.
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With the recent changes, the most obvious being that it`s not green any more, I`ve been trying to refer to the Sonus as "SFX".

The last batch I got was light gray in color and was less, uhm...elastic?...then the green version. More "crumbly" especially, it seemed, when used with their Glyde.

So not a change for the best IMO, not by any means :(
 
Speaking of clay lube, I tried to buy some of the BF Clay lube that they were discontinuing. I placed my order for it and I guess they ran out, they just sent me a gallon of the “new” stuff for the closeout price. A gallon will do me for years, but at $15 I couldn’t pass it up.
 
Accumulator said:
rlmccarty2000- You`ve already heard this a million times from me, but I`ll never understand how/why people get less marring with a decon towel than with clay. Cannot wrap my head around that!
Click to expand...

I wonder if it has something to do with surface area? Kind of like the "trick" of a man lying on a bed of nails. Or better, a man sandwiched between two boards of nails, and another guy takes a sledge hammer and breaks the brick sitting atop the board of nails. The force is spread out over the many nails, rather than concentrated on a smaller area.

SOOOOO, surface area of a small piece of clay that can fit on the palm of your hand, versus surface area of a clay towel or mitt.

Maybe. I`m just throwing it out there :) Maybe my thoughts aren`t even completely written here!



Accumulator said:
trashmanssd- Heh heh, maybe the loose nut here is Accumulator claying his way ...spending hours and hours, and going through lots of clay.. :o
Click to expand...

That is scary! Hours and hours? Oh man.


RaskyR1 said:
Both clay and towels are abrasive. IMO they should always be followed with a polishing. I prefer the nanoskin towel with Glide as lube and I don`t have an issue with any noticeable marring but I still won`t use it without polishing.
Click to expand...

I, too, would prefer to polish following a clay session. But I recently tried NOT polishing. Results are seen by following the link at the end


Accumulator said:
With the recent changes, the most obvious being that it`s not green any more, I`ve been trying to refer to the Sonus as "SFX".

The last batch I got was light gray in color and was less, uhm...elastic?...then the green version. More "crumbly" especially, it seemed, when used with their Glyde.

So not a change for the best IMO, not by any means :(
Click to expand...

Ahhhh, okay. That`s the same stuff I seemed to have received. I wasn`t sure what to make of it. But yeah. It`s grey, not as elastic, and can be "crumbly."

So adding my own experiences: I have marred with both clay and clay alternatives. It`s why I prefer to polish afterwards.

I`ve also have gotten away without the need for polishing, using both clay (in that case, it was the Sonus SFX mentioned above) and clay alternatives. The main thing with the latter, however, is that it takes a much longer time and a ton of clay lube! Great if you have the time (and lube). Not so much if you`re a pro trying to get `er done and gone.

Here`s a review of the Blackfire Clay Mitt I did recently. I took my time during the claying. Used TONS of "lube" and got decent results without the need for a polish. The owner didn`t want a polish, she just wanted clean and shiny.

https://www.autopia.org/forums/deta...43-review-blackfire-clay-mitt.html?highlight=
 
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