FLEXperts, please help...
- Thread starter dutch999
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imported_User Name
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Okay, G110 owner here possibly looking to jump ship to a Flex DA and I have some questions.
First... should I do it? Is there some tangible benefit from the G110 to the Flex? What about things like warranty and build quality?
Second: Can I use the pads I use with my G110? I have a wide assortment of pads, including 6.5 inch Meguiars pads (W8006 & 9006) and a bunch of 4" LC CCS Pads. Can I use these with the Flex?
Third: How about backing plates? I have three backing plates for my G110. The original that came with it, one I bought from PAC (think it is a 3.5") and then I have even a smaller one. Can they be used with the Flex?
Lastly... I'm assuming most of the above cannot be used with the Flex, so if not, what would I need to buy in order to make myself "ready to go". Thanks in advance.
First... should I do it? Is there some tangible benefit from the G110 to the Flex? What about things like warranty and build quality?
Second: Can I use the pads I use with my G110? I have a wide assortment of pads, including 6.5 inch Meguiars pads (W8006 & 9006) and a bunch of 4" LC CCS Pads. Can I use these with the Flex?
Third: How about backing plates? I have three backing plates for my G110. The original that came with it, one I bought from PAC (think it is a 3.5") and then I have even a smaller one. Can they be used with the Flex?
Lastly... I'm assuming most of the above cannot be used with the Flex, so if not, what would I need to buy in order to make myself "ready to go". Thanks in advance.
imported_mobenzowner
New member
Currently there is only one "good" way to use 4" pads on the Flex, and that is with the edge 2k adapter and edge system pads. The G110 backing plates wont work either as the Flex BP is geared for the forced rotation. SOme have actually lathed/cut the edge bp down to accept smaller pads, but I think it weakens the structure of the plate. Not something I would do.
imported_Stokdgs
New member
I have the old style P/C 7424, then I bought the Flex XC 3401 VRG. The Flex is great, but bigger, more powerful, has forced rotation, but only comes with the 6" backing plate, and last I heard, they have not made a smaller one that fits correctly, from the factory.
I liked the Flex, but ran across a string of badly scratched vehicles, that ultimately, had me go to a rotary, the Makita 9227. I purchased all 3 of these machines from Proper Autocare.
I use the Flex sometimes on paint that doesnt need as much correction power as the Rotary to correct, but I use the Rotary more, and the Flex less and less. If it had the ability to use smaller pads with the correct backing plate, I might use it more, but as it is for me, its only good for bigger panels, and doesnt have any problems with introducing holograms, etc., that some say the Rotary may do, depending on the pad, compound, paint type and condition, etc...
If you are on the fence between the two, Flex or Rotary, its a tough place to be, but you can be successful with either one, depending on your needs, how much you detail, what kind of vehicles you do the most, geez, there are a dozen-dozen reasons, etc...
I had used a Rotary in the past when it was nothing but 3M products and wool cutting and polishing pads, so I already had that part down. It was a little harder to get used to foam pads on the rotary for me coming from the Wool 3M and Schlegel pad World, but I figured it out. If you have only used foam, then the transition to Rotary should be much easier..
Good luck with this, let us know what you decide on, and by all means get more feed back from this great bunch of guys here.
Dan F
I liked the Flex, but ran across a string of badly scratched vehicles, that ultimately, had me go to a rotary, the Makita 9227. I purchased all 3 of these machines from Proper Autocare.
I use the Flex sometimes on paint that doesnt need as much correction power as the Rotary to correct, but I use the Rotary more, and the Flex less and less. If it had the ability to use smaller pads with the correct backing plate, I might use it more, but as it is for me, its only good for bigger panels, and doesnt have any problems with introducing holograms, etc., that some say the Rotary may do, depending on the pad, compound, paint type and condition, etc...
If you are on the fence between the two, Flex or Rotary, its a tough place to be, but you can be successful with either one, depending on your needs, how much you detail, what kind of vehicles you do the most, geez, there are a dozen-dozen reasons, etc...
I had used a Rotary in the past when it was nothing but 3M products and wool cutting and polishing pads, so I already had that part down. It was a little harder to get used to foam pads on the rotary for me coming from the Wool 3M and Schlegel pad World, but I figured it out. If you have only used foam, then the transition to Rotary should be much easier..
Good luck with this, let us know what you decide on, and by all means get more feed back from this great bunch of guys here.
Dan F
imported_Bunky
New member
I would go with the Flex...you will like it.
imported_User Name
New member
Dan,
You made a VERY convincing case AGAINST the Flex!!! LOL Now I'm thinking rotary with a dynabride attachment because I'm convinced that I'll burn the sh*t out of my paint with a rotary on its own!!! LOL
I hate the idea that I'm stuck using big pads with the Flex, as I enjoy using my 4" pads in tight areas with my G110. Maybe I should leave well enough alone.
You made a VERY convincing case AGAINST the Flex!!! LOL Now I'm thinking rotary with a dynabride attachment because I'm convinced that I'll burn the sh*t out of my paint with a rotary on its own!!! LOL
I hate the idea that I'm stuck using big pads with the Flex, as I enjoy using my 4" pads in tight areas with my G110. Maybe I should leave well enough alone.
imported_Stokdgs
New member
Username,
Sorry, not trying to make it harder for you to decide.
I thought of this after I posted that earlier - I use the Rotary now with 6" and 4" backing plates and pads, AND the P/C 7424 with mostly the 4" pads for the areas that I dont want to get the spinning pad close to and possibly cause problems like mirrors, inside door handle cups, around the trim pieces that could get damaged more easily with the spinning pad.
So, for my needs, I am down to the 2 machines, and the Flex takes alot of time off.
I know that this may not be the most desireable, "economical", etc., way to use the machines I have, but for me at this point, its how I do it.
I am sure others use all 3 or just one and do just fine too. Its all up to how you use your current perfectly great PC and what your needs are going forward.
Hopefully one or more of the real Pros will chime in and give you more things to think about..
And as we all know, nothing beats the Rotary for speed of correction, and as you have seen pictures of, alot of people like to use the Rotary with the smaller pads too. But then, you have the dusting that Rotary's sometimes make vs hardly any with the Random Orbitals..
I don't think I will ever get rid of my Flex 3401, I will always try to find a way to use it, and it will make a pretty good back-up for the P/C 7424.
Good luck !!
Dan F
Sorry, not trying to make it harder for you to decide.
I thought of this after I posted that earlier - I use the Rotary now with 6" and 4" backing plates and pads, AND the P/C 7424 with mostly the 4" pads for the areas that I dont want to get the spinning pad close to and possibly cause problems like mirrors, inside door handle cups, around the trim pieces that could get damaged more easily with the spinning pad.
So, for my needs, I am down to the 2 machines, and the Flex takes alot of time off.
I know that this may not be the most desireable, "economical", etc., way to use the machines I have, but for me at this point, its how I do it.
I am sure others use all 3 or just one and do just fine too. Its all up to how you use your current perfectly great PC and what your needs are going forward.
Hopefully one or more of the real Pros will chime in and give you more things to think about..
And as we all know, nothing beats the Rotary for speed of correction, and as you have seen pictures of, alot of people like to use the Rotary with the smaller pads too. But then, you have the dusting that Rotary's sometimes make vs hardly any with the Random Orbitals..
I don't think I will ever get rid of my Flex 3401, I will always try to find a way to use it, and it will make a pretty good back-up for the P/C 7424.
Good luck !!
Dan F
User Name,
Funny you should post this, because I've been toying with the idea of stepping up to a flex myself.
I just want to be able to remove light to moderate swirls quicker than I can with my G110 without moving up to the full power of a rotary where I can do some real damage. Although truth be told, I have no Idea how much trouble I could get into with a flex.
Question for the pros. What are some of the potential dangers of using the flex over using the G110?
Mike
Funny you should post this, because I've been toying with the idea of stepping up to a flex myself.
I just want to be able to remove light to moderate swirls quicker than I can with my G110 without moving up to the full power of a rotary where I can do some real damage. Although truth be told, I have no Idea how much trouble I could get into with a flex.
Question for the pros. What are some of the potential dangers of using the flex over using the G110?
Mike
Todd@RUPES
Just a regular guy
The potential for damage is marginally higher when using a Flex because it is marginally more powerful.
How much more powerful? Well that is a question of debate...
Flex rates their Forced DA at a maximum of 480 RPM and 9600 OPM with a 5/16th stroke.
The PC is rated at a maximum of 6800 OPM with no RPM limit (RPM is controlled by inertia created during the orbits - the amount of friction created by the pad and the paint, with an identical 5/16th stroke.
Here in lies the problem. Each time a machine orbits per revolution it creates an 'in and out' curly-q in the pattern. Because the Flex is geared it creates the pattern regardless of pad speed. If you count the pattern you might be shocked to learn that you only get 10 orbits per rotation!!! This is simple to count if you you have a Flex, simply spin the backing plate one full rotation and count the amount of times the plate moves in and out.
Since I know of a person who has used strobe lights to guage the RPM of the FLEX and found it to run at around 478 RPM max, this means that you are limited to 4800 OPM vs. 9600 OPM. FLEX must use a different method or out count each 'half orbit' as a full orbit in order to advertise 9600 OPM. It is geared and limited to a maximum of 4800 OPM.
If the PC used a similar measurement of OPM, it would be rated at a maximum of 13600 OPM!!!
In the end this really doesn't matter as in most cases the FLEX (because of forced RPM) is going to drive the pad across the paint with more force and thus be more powerful.
How dangerous and how powerful? If I had to put a number on it, the FLEX has the driving power (moves the pad about the same speed) as a rotary at roughly 700 RPM. Very gentle, but with the added benefit of the oscillations which prevent heat from building on the paint's surface or excessively polishing one area.
The FLEX, IMO, is a great machine, which because of it's fixed nature, allows most users to achieve near maximal results with very little experience. Both the PC and rotary are more difficult to master because each has unique characteristics that require experience and knowledge to fully extract their potential.
Just my two cents.
rockymountaindetail
New member
I upgraded from the original PC to the Flex and am very happy with it. It is a more "substantial" machine IMO. It is heavier, but I think easier to handle and definitely more powerful. I also feel less vibration than with the PC as there isn't any "jiggle". This adds up after a long day of buffing!!
Not sure about the G110, but my PC had on and off, that's it. The Flex has an adjustable trigger which I love. You can set the speed dial on 6, but squeeze the trigger slowly to get the pad up to speed and spread the product without flinging it all over. Then full squeeze and you are up to full speed.
The backing plate issue is my only gripe, I use either 6.5 or 7" pads w/ the Flex. But what I did was designate my PC to the 3.5" backer and 4" pads. I keep this handy for small areas and quick corrections of an individual scratch and for motorcycles etc. I am very pleased and think the forced rotation makes it easier to correct paint.
Not sure about the G110, but my PC had on and off, that's it. The Flex has an adjustable trigger which I love. You can set the speed dial on 6, but squeeze the trigger slowly to get the pad up to speed and spread the product without flinging it all over. Then full squeeze and you are up to full speed.
The backing plate issue is my only gripe, I use either 6.5 or 7" pads w/ the Flex. But what I did was designate my PC to the 3.5" backer and 4" pads. I keep this handy for small areas and quick corrections of an individual scratch and for motorcycles etc. I am very pleased and think the forced rotation makes it easier to correct paint.
imported_User Name
New member
Mike,
Great post, which illicited a great response by Todd.
Todd,
Let me ask you this... specifically in connection to what you wrote, were you referring to the "old" PC or the PCXP.
If it was the old PC, how does the PCXP change things and does it close the gap?
At the end of the day, if I'm not gonig to go to a rotary, is it worth changing from a G110 to a Flex?
Great post, which illicited a great response by Todd.
Todd,
Let me ask you this... specifically in connection to what you wrote, were you referring to the "old" PC or the PCXP.
If it was the old PC, how does the PCXP change things and does it close the gap?
At the end of the day, if I'm not gonig to go to a rotary, is it worth changing from a G110 to a Flex?
BimmerSean
New member
Flex question
While we are on the Flex topic, has anyone used the bigger Flex rotary? It is the LK603VVB model that competes with the Makita. I have a buffer addiction guys. I have the Flex XC 3401 dual action and two L3403VRG lightweight polishers. I also have the Metabo rotary, the new Hitachi, the old and new Porter Cable orbitals, few pneumatic buffers including a couple of Dynabrades. And last but not least, the Makita 9227...So, can someone please talk me out of getting the LK603VVB? Is it noisy like the rest of the Flex buffers?
While we are on the Flex topic, has anyone used the bigger Flex rotary? It is the LK603VVB model that competes with the Makita. I have a buffer addiction guys. I have the Flex XC 3401 dual action and two L3403VRG lightweight polishers. I also have the Metabo rotary, the new Hitachi, the old and new Porter Cable orbitals, few pneumatic buffers including a couple of Dynabrades. And last but not least, the Makita 9227...So, can someone please talk me out of getting the LK603VVB? Is it noisy like the rest of the Flex buffers?
Todd@RUPES
Just a regular guy
Sean, we sell the Flex LK603VVB and I would love to take your money!!! but.....
I would pass. I have the LK603VVB and compared to the Makita it is much nosier and the RPM seems to throttle up and down more. It feels (IMO) bulkier and less precise then the Makita.
I would pass on it and consider picking up a DeWalt if you want something different. My 2 cents...
rockymountaindetail
New member
Going from PC to Flex there really isn't much of a curve. It feels different and it's more powerful, so you need to get used to it being different, but you can't really hurt anything while you are learning like you can with a rotary.
supercharged
New member
Owning PC7424, UDM, Flex VRG3401 I still felt the need for rotary. Flex is a nice and powerful machine, but to me it is to noisy, and it still vibrates (much less) just like PC. That's the main reason I upgrated to Flex, because every time I do a full correction with a PC, I feel like I polish myself, I always feel very tired. Now with that said I upgraded to Flex DA. It is much more powerfull, and I felt less tired them when I used a PC. But it was still not enough, as I wanted MORE POWER WITHOUT vibrations, and recently I upgraded to Makita 9227C. Man, I love this machine!!! I bought Rubbish Boy backing plates from UK (125mm, 75mm, and 50 mm), and all 3 cost me less then 3M backing plate costs (3M rotary backing plate costs $70). I also discovered my favorite Uber Yellow pad to work with on a rotary. It cuts more then orange pad, yet finishes down nearly LSP ready. A full detail of my daily driver will be posted soon, but I can tell you I'm not going back to PC 7424. Makita is very well balanced rotary (I was working at speed 3, which is 1500 RPM), however I still feel I have a lot to learn, especially when working on vertical surfaces. If I was you, I'd get Makita rotary instead.