Dodge Charger - waterspot hell

N

nicksr

New member
Ok, it has been a really long time since I spent the weekends actually detailing my cars.



Of course, it has been a long time since I owned anything other then a new car, so I didnt need to do much.



So, now I have this '94 850 Turbo Wagon I bought for my wife about a year ago. Paint looked to be in fair shape.



I was quite surprised to find that the paint was rubbing off like crazy the first time I washed it. So I figured a good polishing was needed. Well, if the paint was rubbing off just washing it, you can imagine the amount that came off when I attempted to hand polish it.



So I called in a "professional" detailer to do the job. He came out, said would cost about $125 to compound, polish and wax it. 30 mins. later he said the paint was too far gone and if he kept going until the paint stopped coming off, there wouldnt be anything left.



Well, I just dont buy it. I think he just didnt want to do all the work for a measely $125 or he didnt know what he was doing. I have detailed enough cars in the past to know this paint is not completely shot. It has too much shine when you polish it. Or maybe I dont know anything.



ok, finally. I have been looking around the web to find the tools I will need to detail the car, along with my '93 Land Cruiser. I dont want to buy the wrong thing and I dont want to buy more then I need, but I do want everything I need to make life easy.



So, I was thinking I would get this PC 7424 I saw here. Is that the right tool for what I need? Sounds perfect. Those big polishers always scared me and I am afraid I will burn the paint.



So, if that will do the trick. What else do I need? what is the best products to use? How many pads and bonnets will be sufficient? So many things to choose from. I know if I dont get the stuff to make it as easy as possible, I wont take the time to do it right.



So hopefully with all the enthusiasts here, I should get lots of thoughtful answers.



Thanks



Nick
 
welcome....i gotta say...PC....yeah thats very cool...but if ur paint is "washing" off then u got some bog probs....unless your really ambitious an experiened you gotta get some PRO help with that car to get a good paint on there..IMHO....not too mention that your protection is going to crap cause your losing layers........like i said...sorry to her about this problem but if paint is coming off from you washing then polishing aint a good idea....get to a pro you trust......try this link to have it evaluated by a good pro in your area....use the link to search near you......let us know what happens....BTW...any pics available from you???good luck buddy!!:up........do a quik search here for a good I-CAR shop

http://209.103.220.181/gold_class/FMPro?-db=goldclass.fp5&-lay=Gold%20Class&-format=search_public.htm&-view.
 
I did not see a link to search for detailers in my area in your post. But I will think about it.



I know the paint is gotta have problems. However, when it gets a good coat of wax on it, no more paint comes off.



If I take too much off by polishing it, the worse that can happen is it needs new paint. Which too me, is the same thing that will happen if the paint is that bad in the first place.



Just a matter of when!



I'll get on those pictures shortly.



BTW - I worked at Eagle One many years ago. So I am not really a complete novice when it comes to detailing cars. Just been a really long time. Eagle One sure has come a long way since I worked there though
 
Dont know what happened. When I first read your post. The link was not there.



After I wrote my reply, the link was there.



Technology, aint she grand?
 
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >

<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by nicksr [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>Ok, it has been a really long time since I spent the weekends actually detailing my cars.

Of course, it has been a long time since I owned anything other then a new car, so I didnt need to do much.

So, now I have this '94 850 Turbo Wagon I bought for my wife about a year ago. Paint looked to be in fair shape.

I was quite surprised to find that the paint was rubbing off like crazy the first time I washed it. So I figured a good polishing was needed. Well, if the paint was rubbing off just washing it, you can imagine the amount that came off when I attempted to hand polish it.

So I called in a "professional" detailer to do the job. He came out, said would cost about $125 to compound, polish and wax it. 30 mins. later he said the paint was too far gone and if he kept going until the paint stopped coming off, there wouldnt be anything left.

Well, I just dont buy it. I think he just didnt want to do all the work for a measely $125 or he didnt know what he was doing. I have detailed enough cars in the past to know this paint is not completely shot. It has too much shine when you polish it. Or maybe I dont know anything.

ok, finally. I have been looking around the web to find the tools I will need to detail the car, along with my '93 Land Cruiser. I dont want to buy the wrong thing and I dont want to buy more then I need, but I do want everything I need to make life easy.

So, I was thinking I would get this PC 7424 I saw here. Is that the right tool for what I need? Sounds perfect. Those big polishers always scared me and I am afraid I will burn the paint.

So, if that will do the trick. What else do I need? what is the best products to use? How many pads and bonnets will be sufficient? So many things to choose from. I know if I dont get the stuff to make it as easy as possible, I wont take the time to do it right.

So hopefully with all the enthusiasts here, I should get lots of thoughtful answers.

Thanks

Nick [/b]</blockquote>
Nick, I would like to extend a hearty welcome to the board. Let me start by saying that using a PC 7424 will not burn the paint. The PC 7424 is an orbital polisher which basically mimics hand rubbing in its motion. This action does not generate enough heat between the pad and the surface to burn the paint. However, another factor is the bonnet you use for the job. For many polishing tasks, you will need a foam bonnet.

As far as your Volvo is concerned, I have a few questions to ask you. First, you state that the paint has gloss. But I want to know if the paint is oxidized and to what degree.
 
I miscommunicated.



I was thinking of the pc7424 so that I wouldnt burn the paint.



as for oxidation. Well when I first bought the car about 16 mos. ago, which is when I had the professional try, it was definately oxidized. How much, I don't really know how to judge that.



what I know is that when the wax wears off, the paint starts coming off when I dry the car after washing.



I was hoping to get the paint into good shape prior to waxing it again. There is water spots that need removing and other various contaminants.
 
PrinzII is correct this is a Ron type question. Well nicksr, there are many many things that could be going on that are causing your problems. If the paint is coming off when you polish you have single stage paint, not clearcoat. Since is a 94' I would think the finish would have been clearcoated. What color is the car?

If the finish is that far gone it may take the use of a direct drive rotary buffer to bring it back from the dead. Unless you have tons of expierence using a rotary I would not recommend trying it yourself.

I would say polish the paint with something like M3 Finesse It II Finishing Material and then follow up with a sealant. There are many sealants to choose from. For store bought items Meguiars #20 Poly sealant is O.K. Also Klasse All-in-One and Klasse Sealant Glaze are excellent. Zaino Bros is also another excellent sealant, in your case you would need Z3.

Also a friend of ours here at autopia, Ron Ketcham, works for one of the largest professional detail companies in the country. Feel free to contact him at Ketch@autoint.com I am sure he can supply you with some very usefull information as well.
 
I agree with everybody. It might be that your 850's paint no longer has a clear coat... which explains the paint coming off when polishing.



Be sure to check out the Volvo Brickboard forum!
 
1. Have the paint thickness measured by someone who knows what they're doing (the best body & paint guy in town). It will take some expensive equipment to do it right but what needs to be known is how thick is the paint at various points on the car.



2. Color sanding is the only way I can think of that will put you back on solid ground. The entire dead layer of paint needs to come off before buffing. The detailer guy prolly understood this on some level and he knew he'd be buffing and buffing and buffing, killing pad after pad, without getting anywhere. Take the paint down to a level where there's some life then bring it back.



I used to do this on older Benzs, Jags and the like (70s and 80s cars) that had plenty of paint to waste. This is the final option before a total repaint. No amount of hand waxing or PCing will get the job done unless you like the endless polishing.
 
I think you are definately on the right track there. When the guy was polishing it, he was going through pads and that seemed to be his main focus.



Of course, I was skeptical because the polisher he was using was of the orbital type you would find at a Pep Boys or something. You know the two handed round type. I have one in my garage. Of course, he said his performed at much higher rpm's. Perhaps, but I have never been able to find like it.



So color sand if I have enough paint left otherwise new paint. I think I know just the guy to answer that question thanks.



Still looking for the perfect detailing setup though. The Landcruiser is in need as well.



There is so much information about different products, so hard to choose.



I saw some Pinnacle starter kits at CMA as well as their Blackfire kit. Just not sure which too get.



oh yeah, both my vehicles are dark green. Not the same shades, but dark green none the less.



Thanks



Nick
 
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >

<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by nicksr [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>I think you are definately on the right track there. When the guy was polishing it, he was going through pads and that seemed to be his main focus.

Of course, I was skeptical because the polisher he was using was of the orbital type you would find at a Pep Boys or something. You know the two handed round type. I have one in my garage. Of course, he said his performed at much higher rpm's. Perhaps, but I have never been able to find like it.

So color sand if I have enough paint left otherwise new paint. I think I know just the guy to answer that question thanks.

Still looking for the perfect detailing setup though. The Landcruiser is in need as well.

There is so much information about different products, so hard to choose.

I saw some Pinnacle starter kits at CMA as well as their Blackfire kit. Just not sure which too get.

oh yeah, both my vehicles are dark green. Not the same shades, but dark green none the less.

Thanks

Nick [/b]</blockquote>
Nick,

I can understand where you are coming from. When I first got here, I was quite literally overwhelmed with a lot of the terminology as well as the vast number of products. But the more I hung around here, the more I learned how to get the Maxima back in pristine shape and I have changed 3/4 of the products I use to clean it.

In the case of your Land Crusier, What steps are you going to take when you detail it?
 
hi nicksr, welcome to the board. from what you've been saying i'd have to conclude that you've got a single stage paint job. now, if you think it's not that far gone, that you might be able to save it, then i'd do this: buy the pc7424 from www.coastaltool.com or the pc7336 from a local lowe's or home depot, buy the pc accessory kit from www.properautocare.com as well as some pinnacle paint cleansing lotion or p21s paint cleaner, a claybar sytem locally (mother's brand), and finally the blackfire polish and paint protectant from www.properautocare.com . even if it doesn't save the volvo you've got the right tools and equipment for the land cruiser and it'll last you a long time. all in all the supplies will run you approx. $225 give or take. once you get the supplies i'd use the ppcl or p21s twice with either the wool pads or yellow ones from the pc kit. then i'd clay the car once just to be sure the surface is as smooth as possible. after that i'd wash the car a second time and start right in with the blackfire. at least 2 coats of the polish and 2 or 3 of the paint protectant. going to a body shop to find out the paint thickness is not a bad idea, but before i sprang for a new paint job i'd try to save it as best i could. my $.02 ;)
 
That was just the kind of advice I was looking for.



I too want to do everything "I" can do before even thinking about a new paint job which will destroy the value of the car.



Thanks for your 2 cents.



Nick
 
Can someone explain what the difference is between these two models?



From what I can tell, one is sold with a pad and the other with a sanding disc but the motor is the same. Is that correct?
 
Someone earlier said I should post a pic of my car.



Well, it is not a great shot, but as you can see the paint still has some shine. Just don't know why it keeps rubbing off.
 
Well that does not look that bad at all. It keeps coming off because it's single stage paint with no clearcoat. A good polish job and sealant should do the trick.



But since it's a single stage paint when the sealant wears off the color of the basecoat will start coming off on your towels/applicators again.
 
nicksr, you are correct. the pc7424 and 7336 are exactly the same except for the pad that comes with the unit, which you'll probably never use anyway. i've got one of each model - they're identical! bought the 7424 2yrs. ago for $150 - bought the 7336 3months ago for $109 from Lowe's. :up
 
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