106ff/blackfire hiding abilities...

A

Al Buff

New member
I've been using blackfire finishing polish and its been a dream! nothing came back.. yet.. i top it with wax. i've been hearing around that its filling some flaws and coming back later on.. how soon do you notice swirls/holograms coming back?
 
Same as you, not notice anything yet

Could it simply be people not burnishing it down

My work time with it is 2.5 to 3.5 mins on cars where I have the time to have fun.
 
It will only give the illusion of filling on certain pain in the butt paints. What I have figured out it was a combo of certain GM paints that marr easy or other paints that marr easy. So what happens is you get pad abrasions even from a soft pad due to the fact of the poor paint quality. Now not only was it just 106 or SIP, it was a multiple of different polishes acting the very same way. The lubes were just sitting on top of the machine/pad made abrasions. The lubes would even stay on top covering them with a wash. IPA took the lubes off and then uncovered everything. This was with 99% of the polishes out there with my own personal truck.



I know why and how it does it and how to permanantly fix this. Before I tell the truth on how to fix this I would love to hear from the pros and their explanations first just to see how many people know why.
 
Also, I know a lot of people here claim that most polishes do not have fillers and most do not, but the solvents/lubes will however act as fillers on certain paints and there is a reason why.



I have had a bunch of users from regular users and top pros here email me regaurding this issue. I have told a bunch of people why and they were amazed at how it was happening.



I know everyone has there own opinion on this and think people that say it has fillers just do not know what they are talking about, but these issues were actully from TOP pros that will remain nameless and they know what they are doing. They had contacted me knowing I have extreme knowledge in paint correction. Trust me....they are not crazy... they really are getting filling capabilities and it's not just SIP/106. It just shows up faster with mainly 106 and there is a reason why!
 
I've gotten filling with FPII but it was only b/c i was in a hurry and didn't break it down properly.



This could probably be the case with any product as most contain lubricants that can act as fillers...
 
I don't notice any filling with the Blackfire polish. Keep in mind I'm using a PC/UDM, and not a rotary.



In fact, following up with ZAIO or KAIO only improved the finish (even on black), not revealing any marring like one would think. I do see how it could fill if not broken down properly, though.
 
Bigpoppa3346 said:
I don't notice any filling with the Blackfire polish. Keep in mind I'm using a PC/UDM, and not a rotary.



In fact, following up with ZAIO or KAIO only improved the finish (even on black), not revealing any marring like one would think. I do see how it could fill if not broken down properly, though.
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Now keep in mind it was only on a very small percentage of paints.



When you use ZAIO or KAIO, do you do an IPA wipedown before you use these polishes?
 
If I can, I'll place a test on thursday with 106FA and RD3.02 removing the oils with IPA or 1z Acrysol and I'll post what I find. But I tried this before with Menzerna Top Inspection and never shown fillers.
 
This is a great topic...I have used 106FF once with great results, but haven't had time to use it as much as I wish I could..
 
maesal said:
If I can, I'll place a test on thursday with 106FA and RD3.02 removing the oils with IPA or 1z Acrysol and I'll post what I find. But I tried this before with Menzerna Top Inspection and never shown fillers.
Click to expand...

This issue is only on very few certain paints. Mine being one of them and is a perfect test bed for testing out true polishing techniques. It's not just the 106 that causes this... Every polish I tested on these same panels along with the same technique failed.



On harder clears I have not had a problem at all. But I will have more on this too.
 
rydawg said:
This issue is only on very few certain paints. Mine being one of them and is a perfect test bed for testing out true polishing techniques. It's not just the 106 that causes this... Every polish I tested on these same panels along with the same technique failed.



On harder clears I have not had a problem at all. But I will have more on this too.
Click to expand...



How are you doing the IPA wipedown? I did it like with a QD in a butter soft BMW black paint and the wipedown marred the clear coat.

Regards my friend !!
 
I am doing a straight 70% wipedown very gentle. While it did look like it is marring the surface, but it actually is just removing the oils. It did dull down the surface big time which put up a red flag immidiatly showing something was wrong somewhere. This was on my black GM Escalade which has very finicky paint.



I tried the very same technique with lots of polishes and it did the very same.



Now on hard clears I got a perfect surface after straight ipa wipedown.
 
Do you think that it will be a good idea mixing some QD (I use Optimum No Rinse when I buff) with IPA to help removing the oils? AFAIK, some QD have IPA in their composition, so, if you increase the IPA composition you'll remove the fillers, oils, etc... but you will have some lube to decrease the possibility of marring the paint.
 
rydawg said:
When you use ZAIO or KAIO, do you do an IPA wipedown before you use these polishes?
Click to expand...



No I do not. I did a test spot on an X5 with IPA after the BF polish, which revealed nothing, no returning marrs or reduction in gloss so I had no reason to IPA the rest of the car. So I followed it up with ZAIO, worked great, no smeary mess like some have reported, no uncovered marring either.
 
For the rotary users... Now this only applies on certain finicky paints!



Now this isn't just 106, but with numerous polishes out there.



I have had people email me or call me and complain about some sort of fillers in Menzerna and had asked me if I had experienced the same. Well I have taken peoples simple process and applied it to the most finicky black paints out there and let it age and see what happens.



The problem: The white pad will leave micro marring pad abrasions from the white pad on certain paints. Once the oils from 106 are dried out with IPA, you will see it in the bright sun. Sometimes it will take a few IPA's to reveal the real paint. The reason why is the oils will get burnished into the paint from the friction of the white pad. This is why people are seeing things weeks after, even after a IPA wipedown, but the nature elements will make them come out in a few short weeks. They will weaken the life of the sealants and giving them poor duability.



The Solution:



When finishing off your paint with a finish polish, you need a finish pad. The LC blue pad was desingned for finishing and is a NON-mechanical pad, which means it will not marr the surface and has NO cut at all. It is the most technically advanced foam pad made. It alloows the finish polish to work using it's own cut and to self diminish leaving a perfect surface.



Let's say your finish is all polishes out and just needs refinement.



Example:

0 being the best flawless finish cut

10 being the harshest finish with pad abrasions



Your finish polish cuts=3 but breaks down to 0

Your white pad cuts=4

What will your finish be? 4 if dry...2 if wet while working slow



Blue LC pad=0 cut

Finish polish=3

What will your final finish be? 0 when broken down correct and the polish has self diminished into a perfect finish



These are my examined findings.



Thanks

Ryan
 
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