New paint..

S

storm2223

New member
Hello guys.... trying learn more about this stuff....I've done some body work , custom ,and otherwise.... kind of a backyarder,do it your self kinda guy...

Most of the stuff I've seen or read on here seems to deal more with older paint..... or should I say not so much with "fresh" paint detailing...

Here's where I'm going with this....I've done some basecoat / clearcoat painting.... and even though it looks pretty decent...I've got the occational dirt and minor orange peel that shows up. I've scuffed and done some minor buffing. Using 3M foam pads. 3M compounds and their glaze.....But I just can't seem to get rid of the fine stuff ....or if I do....no matter how clean I try and keep things...I end up with another light scratch here or there...I work that one out ....and find another....

They say it's easier to work "Fresh" paint...but I'm finding it like working with eggs!

This is my project.... click here



Is it just harder with the Red?
 
First off, :welcome to Autopia storm2223!



If you want the best looking finish around you're in the right place.



There's a lot going on in your post, I'm not a guru but I have few thoughts.



We actually do talk about newly sprayed paint fairly often around here. Mostly you'll see reminders to not apply any waxes or sealants on it until it's fully cured. Since this is a detailing forum, not a painting forum, most questions that come up are about maintaining a finish. What you're asking about it the initial creation of the finish, which is usually a done deal before people ask about it here.



There is a "workability window" with a re-spray finish. It's time after the paint has cured enough to be buffed glossy but before it has hardened substantially, making buffing more difficult. It's dependent on the finishing system used, how the process is followed and environmental conditions. After that the finish is certainly still workable, it just takes more aggressive effort. When they say fresh paint is "easier" they mean it takes less force and time, not less skill and concentration (as you've learned it takes more).



Dirt in a finish is dependent on environmental cleanliness during the shoot. That's why you see top painters meticulously maintaining their spray booths, obsessively preparing the cars and wearing bunny suits when they shoot.



If dirt gets trapped in the basecoat or deep in the clearcoat it's there forever. You're stuck with it until you paint it again. If it's near the very top or only on top of the clearcoat it can be sanded off.



Orange peel will vary due to numerous factors but it basically comes with the territory. You can learn to keep it to a minimum with choice of paint systems and spray techniques but to eliminate it you've got to sand it out.



If you're not getting the results you'd like you'll want to reevaluate the products and techniques you use.



From the description it sounds like you are having trouble with sanding scratch and subsequent buffing. Are you using top quality, finishing specific abrasives like Meguiar's, Mirka, 3M and Norton? Are you using fine enough grits? 1500? 2000? 2500? 3000? Are you using a backing pad when sanding? Are you soaking the paper before using it? Are you using additional lubricant? Which compounds are you using in what order with which pads and at what speeds?



Just a few of questions you may want to ask yourself and areas you might want to experiment with.



If the scratches are popping up after it's already been pristine for a while then we're talking about classic detailing issues. There's a tremendous amount of discussion and great info around here about that. It's best to start by reading the articles in the learn! section. Then do a lot of reading all over the board.



Cool ride, by the way. Good luck.





PC.
 
storm2223- Welcome to Autopia. That car looks like a lot of fun :xyxthumbs



the other PC pretty well covered everything I would've posted about "fresh paint".



You're on the right track already by the sound of it. Just gotta refine your technique (or find products that work better for you). Using gradually finer polishes and the right pads and (MF) towels, you really can get a perfect finish.



IMO the biggest single thing is to avoid marring (scratching/swirling/etc.) the paint once you get it nice. Easier said than done, but it basically boils down to not letting anything harder than the paint abrade the paint. Never touch the paint when it's dirty. Never touch the paint with anything that isn't *softer than the paint*. We do a lot of discussions about how to wash/etc. without causing damage and a few of us :o are pretty off the deep end about it.
 
I understand what you guys are saying....the picture I posted is actually from last year. This winter, I pulled the front fenders off and added AC Cobra front fender vents and added power side mirrors off a 90 Mustang GT Vert. Which required me to weld up the original mirror holes.

Since the car was originally painted a couple years ago....over time I had some wierd sunken spots that showed up on the fiberglass hood ( I assume the fiberglass cured and shrunk). Anyway..along with my recent work I decided it was a good excuse to not only paint the fenders and doors but re-clear from the doors forward. ( reblocked the hood this way).



I've used 2000 grit to knock down the dirt and minor orange peel.And yes with a foam backing pad....other than water I don't use any additional lubricant...???

I use 3M's Perfect II compond with the white foam pad on a buffer...then I move to 3M's Finesse-it Finish material with the black pad.... then I pick up the PC and use Perfect II Machine glaze ...green pad and finish with Megires #7 with the blue pad.



So.... what am I doing wrong? I know with new paint I can't use wax of any sort....Am I just trying to achieve what I can't until I can wax/seal? ..... Any suggestions would be very helpful...



Thanks
 
I dunno if there's anything really wrong with your current approach, though I'm not familiar with the pads you're using. My approach is similar but generally milder. Compare what I'm doing with what *you're* doing. FWIW I was working on Spies Hecker b/c paint, which is pretty hard for aftermarket paint, even when it's still curing.



What I do is limit my wetsanding to 2.5-3K grit. I soak it in soapy water and use soapy water for lube (I like Meg's #62 for this). I do as little wetsanding as I can. Then I use PI-III RC (05933) with the rotary to get rid of any sanding marks. Try it with a polishing pad, which is usually enough if doing it by rotary. Then PI-III MG (05937) also polishing pad/rotary. Inspect. If any holograms, I'll use the Cyclo and the PI-III RC for one pass then the Cyclo with PI-III MG (both times with polishing pads). If no holograms I;ll go straight to the Cyclo/MG. Then I'll move to a finer polish like 1Z (pro version) MP or Menzerna FP (still by Cyclo or maybe by PC).



I don't use #7 with b/c paint. I prefer #5 if just trying to use *something* over fresh paint while it's curing but that's just me. Nothing wrong with #7.
 
Thanks for the reply back...The one thing I'm learning is there's such a vast amount of products on the market....that it all becomes pretty confusing ...real quick!



Your giving me a ton of product information....but with the "code" talk and not knowing the products...makes it real tough.



Seems like even in the same brands...they make multipule products (polish,wax,compounds) that do about the same thing....3M is terriable for this.... And one guys Blue pad does what another guys black pad does...I won't even get into the green and orange pads!...LOL



Guess I just need to take it slow....and learn as I go....



One thing you said that's odd....everyone say's soap is bad for clearcoats...softens them....yet your using it as a lubricant?
 
Yeah, it does get confusing! Here's what I meant for the products:



The 3M stuff you can ID by the part numbers (05933 and 05937). I greatly prefer their Perfect-It III line over their PI-II and Finess It lines. The 1Z ("Ein-Zett" = "one 'z' ", german stuff) stuff is their Pro version (round, 1 liter can) of Metallic Polish. The Menzerna is their Final Polish.
 
:bow



Ok...I'm using the 3M-#5933 for the 1st round...following it with the finesse-it on round #2 ...so we're on the same page there. So I'm guessing I'm either using to "light" of a pad through the process or just not working the panel long enough...obviously I'm doing this very cautiously....

I'll just have to live with the glaze for now I guess...I understand sealing has a type of filling capablility with the wax should top things off nicely....
 
Yeah, the range of product, even within a single company, gets awfully confusing. It doesn't help that the 3M's website is hugely lame and nearly devoid of truly usable information. I've never used 3M for that very reason, so I can't help with anything specific.



Pad color is absolutely company specific. Never, ever assume a given pad has a particular purpose based on color. You really, really need to know who made it and what they recommend.



I've never heard anybody say mild soap is bad for clearcoats. Strong detergents are a different matter. Rest assured that Meg's #62 is totally safe for your paint. If you don't want a full gallon of #62 (although it would be a good thing to have around) try #00 instead.



I would agree that there's a good chance you didn't quite get aggressive enough with the early rounds of compounding. Initial sanding scratch removal is often done with a wool pad and heavy cut compound. Sandpaper doesn't ever have perfectly even grit. If 99.99% of the grit is 2000 or finer then 0.01% is still going to be courser. Doesn't sound like much but you have millions of particles. If your compound/pad easily takes out scratches of 2000 or finer that means you'll still have hundreds of courser scratches it won't remove.



If you don't have consistent lighting for inspection it's easy to miss some percentage of the scratches and then have them "appear" later.





PC
 
If you don't have consistent lighting for inspection it's easy to miss some percentage of the scratches and then have them "appear" later.



You may have hit the nail on the head...and would explain the scratches that keep appearing from nowhere.... Plus I'm under florescent lighting ....which I know magnify's everthing too.



I've tried to stay away from the wool pads on purpose....LOL



Since I don't wanna be repainting again....I guess conservative is better than to aggressive..... I'll just keep massaging till I get there...



Thanks for all the help guys..!

:bow
 
storm2223 said:
... Plus I'm under florescent lighting ....
Click to expand...



AHAH! That's it. Fluorescent lighting generally sucks for spotting marring. Working on silver, for instance, if I can see it under fluorescent, then it's so bad I must be looking at somebody else's car ;)



I know that's basically the opposite from "what everybody knows/says", but it's obvious once you actually compare different light sources using the same subject. I have all three types (fluorescent, incandescent, halogen) of light (plus a window for sunlight) in my shop and it's pretty remarkable how marring just "appears" when you use first the halogens and then the incandescents.



Get some halogen worklights, the kind that hold two halogen bulbs. Also, get an old-fashioned incandescent trouble light that will take a hight wattage bulb (at least 200W). Use *those* for your inspecting and you'll a) see a lot more than you ever did before, and b) spot stuff the first time. By changing your viewing angle, you'll be able to get every panel just right, spotting everything so there are no surprises later.



Oh, and regarding the soap, heh heh, automotive clear is a lot tougher than some self-proclaimed "experts" :rolleyes: :D might have you believe ;)



But keep taking the gentle, gradual approach. Better safe than sorry. Better "imperfect" than "in need of a repaint" too ;)



Originally posted by the other PC

Sandpaper doesn't ever have perfectly even grit. If 99.99% of the grit is 2000 or finer then 0.01% is still going to be courser. Doesn't sound like much but you have millions of particles. If your compound/pad easily takes out scratches of 2000 or finer that means you'll still have hundreds of courser scratches it won't remove.
Click to expand...



By now you probably know I'm no huge fan of Meguiar's, with the exception of #16 and #5 (well, I sorta like the #62 soap too). But their "Unigrit" sandpaper is pretty amazing. Truly consistent grit, and as best I can tell that's not just ad copy BS either. I get *all* the marks from their 2500 (let alone their 3K) out easily with just PI-III RC, even on the hard Audi clear. I was pretty amazed at how much better it is than the 3M paper I used to use.
 
Yeah I learned from the 1st time around that what I'm seeing in the garage is all but invisable outside... I do "break in" my sand paper before I use it...scuff an old fender 1st....but I suppose that's not a guarantee on anything either...



This car started out as a daily driver that's evolved to ....not necessarily a show car...but pretty nice....since I have the chance (with the fresh clear coat) to really improve on what I had before.



I'm trying.....to do it right....and maybe I'm just pushing it...maybe I "need" to let it sit awhile and cure....maybe the clear wouldn't be quite so touchy....:nixweiss
 
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